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Ruby Ridge? Did the US Government Do the Right Thing?
Posted on 4/28/17 at 12:33 am
Posted on 4/28/17 at 12:33 am
I've been delving into all the events that marked my childhood (the Berlin Wall, Ruby Ridge, the Unabomber, Waco, OKC bombing, etc.)
One of those is Ruby Ridge. Looking at this event, I can't decide who was right. I think the feds were backed into a corner and had to go in hot, but no one likes to see the underdog get laid low.
What are y'all's thoughts?
One of those is Ruby Ridge. Looking at this event, I can't decide who was right. I think the feds were backed into a corner and had to go in hot, but no one likes to see the underdog get laid low.
What are y'all's thoughts?
30
Posted on 4/28/17 at 12:34 am to PurpleandGold Motown
Feds prob screwed up
Posted on 4/28/17 at 12:38 am to PurpleandGold Motown
Both sides are fricked up.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 12:38 am to biglego
It was, at its heart, about a guy sawing off the barrel of a few shotguns.
It's really tough to cast my mind back to that time. I was old enough to be aware but not fully cognizant of the entire picture.
I remember being frightened during the 80s and 90s. I have never been scared of dying in some random act like I was back then. The world was burning. The US was burning.
It's really tough to cast my mind back to that time. I was old enough to be aware but not fully cognizant of the entire picture.
I remember being frightened during the 80s and 90s. I have never been scared of dying in some random act like I was back then. The world was burning. The US was burning.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 12:43 am to PurpleandGold Motown
no, they fricked up big time.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 12:44 am to PurpleandGold Motown
No, frick no.
Feds, especially the sniper who killed Vicki Weaver, (he also worked the Wavo massacre), should be in jail.
Ruby Ridge was total bullshite.
As was Waco.
And I'm not talking right or wrong with regard to Randy Weaver or the David Koresh asshat ... I'm talking about the Feds in both cases, totally botched both cases and should have suffered serious penalties.
Feds, especially the sniper who killed Vicki Weaver, (he also worked the Wavo massacre), should be in jail.
Ruby Ridge was total bullshite.
As was Waco.
And I'm not talking right or wrong with regard to Randy Weaver or the David Koresh asshat ... I'm talking about the Feds in both cases, totally botched both cases and should have suffered serious penalties.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 12:54 am to PurpleandGold Motown
No it was pretty screwed up how they sniped the frick out of them.
They should have brought in ol Bo Gritz much earlier and they probably would have defused the situation.
They should have brought in ol Bo Gritz much earlier and they probably would have defused the situation.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 12:57 am to The Boat
Reminds me of the George Carlin skit about a man barricading himself in his house and no one caring.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 12:57 am to PurpleandGold Motown
The ATF informant set him up and made him cut the shotgun off at an illegal length. Supposedly he originally didn't do that. So that was straight up entrapment to get him to join the Aryan Nations dipshits who's church he had attended a few times since they were local and Weaver was a racist but he had not joined them and didn't agree with all they were selling.
The rest was government overreach leading to horrible mistakes that didn't have to happen that ended in a lot of people dying who didn't have to. Basically a federal judge said you shall not defy me and that set in motion events that ultimately would have led to the death of him and all his kids and that would have been perfectly legal and made the point they were trying to make. As it was they killed his son, his wife while holding her baby in her arms, shot his friend, shot him, and called out for the wife for days after as she lay dead in a fashion that to Weaver's family just reinforced that they were mocking them to get them enraged to come out and get killed too. According to reports, the Feds didn't know that she was dead. That's debatable. The highest level snipers in the world don't usually make mistakes of that magnitude at the ranges they were shooting. Generally if they miss, it's less than an inch or two.
No. The Government did NOT do the right thing at Ruby Ridge. The rules of engagement they implemented were basically more severe than in most places we were fighting the last few wars. They went in there with the plan of killing him and everyone else on that mountain if they didn't immediately submit. And that's what they did the first few days.
The rest was government overreach leading to horrible mistakes that didn't have to happen that ended in a lot of people dying who didn't have to. Basically a federal judge said you shall not defy me and that set in motion events that ultimately would have led to the death of him and all his kids and that would have been perfectly legal and made the point they were trying to make. As it was they killed his son, his wife while holding her baby in her arms, shot his friend, shot him, and called out for the wife for days after as she lay dead in a fashion that to Weaver's family just reinforced that they were mocking them to get them enraged to come out and get killed too. According to reports, the Feds didn't know that she was dead. That's debatable. The highest level snipers in the world don't usually make mistakes of that magnitude at the ranges they were shooting. Generally if they miss, it's less than an inch or two.
No. The Government did NOT do the right thing at Ruby Ridge. The rules of engagement they implemented were basically more severe than in most places we were fighting the last few wars. They went in there with the plan of killing him and everyone else on that mountain if they didn't immediately submit. And that's what they did the first few days.
This post was edited on 4/28/17 at 1:04 am
Posted on 4/28/17 at 1:08 am to PurpleandGold Motown
The confrontation was handled poorly at best by the Gov Agency.
Probably a good example of what not to do, operationally. But, because the victims were in the wrong criminally the gov gets a pass.
Waco I would put in the same category. They could have waited out Koresh and taken him down offsite over time without initiating the confrontation that resulted in the loss of life that day.
Unfortunately when people call for government action, they get it.
Probably a good example of what not to do, operationally. But, because the victims were in the wrong criminally the gov gets a pass.
Waco I would put in the same category. They could have waited out Koresh and taken him down offsite over time without initiating the confrontation that resulted in the loss of life that day.
Unfortunately when people call for government action, they get it.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 1:09 am to PurpleandGold Motown
I watched the documentary titled Oklahoma City on Netflix the other day. I knew what had happened at Waco but only had ever heard of Ruby Ridge. When the documentary delved into the story I couldn't believe how complicit the government was with the death of Weaver's family. Truly sickening. Weaver may have been a racist POS but he was entrapped into breaking the law by federal law enforcement. All he wanted to do was be left alone. The government ended up killing his wife and his teenage son. Despicable.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 1:15 am to PurpleandGold Motown
There was a pretty interesting documentary about Ruby Ridge on PBS a few weeks ago.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 1:22 am to Evolved Simian
Haven't read anything on this for a long time. My memory may have faded and I didn't research it back then like I would now.
Correct me if I am wrong. The man was cut off the barrel of a shotgun and the undercover agent sent it back demanding that it be shorter so as to get it below the legal limit so he could be arrested.
The woman was shot and killed by a sniper while holding a baby in her hands.
Is my memory accurate? I really don't know if these facts are indeed facts.
Correct me if I am wrong. The man was cut off the barrel of a shotgun and the undercover agent sent it back demanding that it be shorter so as to get it below the legal limit so he could be arrested.
The woman was shot and killed by a sniper while holding a baby in her hands.
Is my memory accurate? I really don't know if these facts are indeed facts.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 1:24 am to PurpleandGold Motown
Feds fricked up big time.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 1:49 am to RogerTheShrubber
I remember reading that federal snipers shot and killed a woman holding a baby. Moreover, it was purposefully done without necessity. If true, such an act is absolutely despicable and I wonder why the agent in question is not in prison.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 1:49 am to PurpleandGold Motown
The winner writes history. That is all you need to know.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 2:32 am to Captain Rumbeard
quote:Remember that cock sucker on the stand bragging about how he could hit a quarter at 500 yards? (Or whatever the distance was.) To him and the Feds this was a chance for them to participate in government sanctioned murder, nothing else. Everyone of them belongs in prison for murder.
According to reports, the Feds didn't know that she was dead. That's debatable. The highest level snipers in the world don't usually make mistakes of that magnitude at the ranges they were shooting. Generally if they miss, it's less than an inch or two.
I'm surprised we don't see a lot more of this sort of shite today. Rand Paul has tried - with little success - to bring attention to unholy increases in "no knock" warrants and the over militarization of our domestic police forces.
I'm far from an antigovernment militant, but I see how it's possible to end up in a similar situation. Someone shoots a family member, fails to identify themselves as an officer of the law, starts shooting at me and the rest of my family, then tries to tell me that they're "from the government and here to help." The same government that just set me up, has been out to get me, just killed my 13 year old son... and they want me to just put my hands up and walk outside? Yeah, frick that.
I'm not moving until a third party, that I know is not a member of the current group of fricktards, has taken control of the situation and I'm confident that I won't be gunned down.
Posted on 4/28/17 at 2:55 am to RollTide1987
quote:
I watched the documentary titled Oklahoma City on Netflix the other day. I knew what had happened at Waco but only had ever heard of Ruby Ridge. When the documentary delved into the story I couldn't believe how complicit the government was with the death of Weaver's family. Truly sickening. Weaver may have been a racist POS but he was entrapped into breaking the law by federal law enforcement. All he wanted to do was be left alone. The government ended up killing his wife and his teenage son. Despicable.
So Weaver was a "dindu"?
It's kind of amazing how many of the same people who are pretty damn quick to defend police violence now are super critical of police violence back in the 90s.
This post was edited on 4/28/17 at 2:57 am
Posted on 4/28/17 at 3:01 am to PurpleandGold Motown
They fricked up.
This post was edited on 4/28/17 at 3:04 am
Posted on 4/28/17 at 3:07 am to montanagator
Sweet generalization asswipe. Link posts of anyone in this thread who condemns the Ruby Ridge incident who also praises the entrapment and killing of innocent US civilians by contemporary LEO.
This post was edited on 4/28/17 at 3:09 am
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