- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: True or False: climate change
Posted on 3/13/17 at 9:24 pm to Iosh
Posted on 3/13/17 at 9:24 pm to Iosh
Hay losh,
Wife came home and I had to do some of that married man stuff.
First nice chart, I'll use it latter!
Second what happened in 1820? Possibly very little.
Historians and climate scientists all proposed their own dates that rang from 1800 to 1850. Sort of like when did WW II start? 1939 right? Well some argue for 1935 when Italy invaded Ethiopia, some choose 1931 when Japan invaded Manchuria. But we all agree there was a war! There was also a Little Ice Age that is known from its effects if not a thermometer. This is from eh-resources.org (eh= environmental history).
Now to your chart. Where would you peg the start of the modern warming period? Your right the only concrete date for a cause is the volcanic eruptions. But based on your graph the warming starts at leased in the middle of the 19th century not the 20th. Based on your graph 1800 is reasonable. I'm biased to 1820 because it's the first date I learned for the end of the cold and start of the new. The paper I referenced picks 1850 and I don't think you could argue no warming until 1950 on your chart.
My argument to you is that climate change is normal and the global temperatures never are the same century to century. I can bring massive evidence that the current cycle is a natural cycle! BUT man mad global advocates demand huge lifestyle changes, and the potential wastage of trillions and trillions of dollars on expensive energy sources and technologies that we probably don't need. They never consider what we won't get for our money when people and societies are free to invest in their other choices.
Finally I agree with the adage that fantastic claims require fantastic proof, and when you see hoof prints in America think horses not Zebras!
I like your reasonableness and willingness to discuss losh, but I have to leave now and probably for the night.
Wife came home and I had to do some of that married man stuff.
First nice chart, I'll use it latter!
Second what happened in 1820? Possibly very little.
Historians and climate scientists all proposed their own dates that rang from 1800 to 1850. Sort of like when did WW II start? 1939 right? Well some argue for 1935 when Italy invaded Ethiopia, some choose 1931 when Japan invaded Manchuria. But we all agree there was a war! There was also a Little Ice Age that is known from its effects if not a thermometer. This is from eh-resources.org (eh= environmental history).
quote:
The Little Ice Age was a period of regionally cold conditions between roughly AD 1300 and 1850. The term “Little Ice Age” is somewhat questionable, because there was no single, well-defined period of prolonged cold. There were two phases of the Little Ice Age, the first beginning around 1290 and continuing until the late 1400s. There was a slightly warmer period in the 1500s, after which the climate deteriorated substantially, with the coldest period between 1645 and 1715 . During this coldest phase of the Little Ice Age there are indications that average winter temperatures in Europe and North America were as much as 2°C lower than at present. There is substantial historical evidence for the Little Ice Age. The Baltic Sea froze over, as did many of the rivers and lakes in Europe. Pack ice expanded far south into the Atlantic making shipping to Iceland and Greenland impossible for months on end. Winters were bitterly cold and summers were often cool and wet. These conditions led to widespread crop failure, famine, and population decline. The tree line and snowline dropped and glaciers advanced, overrunning towns and farms in the process. There were increased levels of social unrest as large portions of the population were reduced to starvation and poverty. Marginal regions During the height of the Little Ice Age , it was in general about one degree Celsius colder than at present. The Baltic Sea froze over, as did most of the rivers in Europe. Winters were bitterly cold and prolonged, reducing the growing season by several weeks. These conditions led to widespread crop failure, famine, and in some regions population decline. The prices of grain increased and wine became difficult to produce in many areas and commercial vineyards vanished in England. Fishing in northern Europe was also badly affected as cod migrated south to find warmer water. Storminess and flooding increased and in mountainous regions the treeline and snowline dropped. In addition glaciers advanced in the Alps and Northern Europe, overrunning towns and farms in the process. Iceland was one of the hardest hit areas. Sea ice, which today is far to the north, came down around Iceland. In some years, it was difficult to bring a ship ashore anywhere along the coast. Grain became impossible to grow and even hay crops failed. Volcanic eruptions made life even harder. Iceland lost half of its population during the Little Ice Age. Rhone Glacier, ca. 1870 Rhône glacier ca. 1870. Source: Wikimedia Commons Tax records in Scandinavia show many farms were destroyed by advancing ice of glaciers and by melt water streams. Travellers in Scotland reported permanent snow cover over the Cairngorm Mountains in Scotland at an altitude of about 1200 metres. In the Alps, the glaciers advanced and threatened to bulldozed towns. Ice-dammed lakes burst periodically, destroying hundreds of buildings and killing many people. As late as 1930 the French Government commissioned a report to investigate the threat of the glaciers. They could not have foreseen that human induced global warming was to deal more effective with this problem than any committee ever could.
Now to your chart. Where would you peg the start of the modern warming period? Your right the only concrete date for a cause is the volcanic eruptions. But based on your graph the warming starts at leased in the middle of the 19th century not the 20th. Based on your graph 1800 is reasonable. I'm biased to 1820 because it's the first date I learned for the end of the cold and start of the new. The paper I referenced picks 1850 and I don't think you could argue no warming until 1950 on your chart.
My argument to you is that climate change is normal and the global temperatures never are the same century to century. I can bring massive evidence that the current cycle is a natural cycle! BUT man mad global advocates demand huge lifestyle changes, and the potential wastage of trillions and trillions of dollars on expensive energy sources and technologies that we probably don't need. They never consider what we won't get for our money when people and societies are free to invest in their other choices.
Finally I agree with the adage that fantastic claims require fantastic proof, and when you see hoof prints in America think horses not Zebras!
I like your reasonableness and willingness to discuss losh, but I have to leave now and probably for the night.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 10:46 pm to bmy
It's patently false, atmospheric water vapor & CO2 levels have a direct correlation with temperature.
By continuing to pump CO2 into the atmosphere, and methane from cow emissions, eventually a point of no return will be reached, where the Earth's retention of solar radiation will overwhelm its ability to dispel heat, and a Venus-like runaway greenhouse inferno will materialize
By continuing to pump CO2 into the atmosphere, and methane from cow emissions, eventually a point of no return will be reached, where the Earth's retention of solar radiation will overwhelm its ability to dispel heat, and a Venus-like runaway greenhouse inferno will materialize
Posted on 3/14/17 at 2:46 am to bmy
Let me ask you, what is the right temperature for the world to be?
Posted on 3/14/17 at 7:05 am to narddogg81
quote:
Let me ask you, what is the right temperature for the world to be?
Depends on what we want it to be imo. The climate simply "is".. but I think it's worthwhile to be coming cognizant of the fact that humans are far more capable of altering the climate than most Republicans give us credit for.
Then we reach a reasonable point in the conversation that isn't based on partisanship or ideologies that infect both left and right.. we can say "Okay, where can we reasonably draw the line to mitigate potential problems of future generations while still ensuring great quality of life.".
Just like everything else.. the truth lies somewhere in between the bullshite you're fed from both extremes
This post was edited on 3/14/17 at 8:16 am
Posted on 3/14/17 at 8:05 am to tarzana
quote:
By continuing to pump CO2 into the atmosphere, and methane from cow emissions, eventually a point of no return will be reached, where the Earth's retention of solar radiation will overwhelm its ability to dispel heat, and a Venus-like runaway greenhouse inferno will materialize
Yeah, that's not true
1) explain how we've pumped more CO2 into the atmosphere, and yet temps have leveled off, and in some years decreased?
2) Why have scientists adopted the theory of oceans as temperature sinks that can hold in this added warmth?
3) How in the HELL is it possible that receding lakes and glaciers are uncovering previous civilizations, if man has continued to produce C02 since their evolution? How did the Earth ever cool enough to cover their previous industrial activities?
Posted on 3/14/17 at 8:09 am to el Gaucho
quote:
False. You believe that there's some big bubble around the earth holding the air in? Surely meteorites would have popped it by now
The real truth is that there is air all in space but astronauts wear facemasks because in space you get sunburned really quick
Oh my...and you got 10 upvotes SMH. This is 3rd grade Earth science, which I'm assuming you failed. Any idea why they get sunburnt so quickly? Any idea what happens when they remove the mask?
Posted on 3/14/17 at 8:13 am to RobbBobb
quote:Even in trends that exist with near 100% certainty, there are often data points lower (or higher) than the preceding one, in the opposite direction of trend. In other words, it is error (noise) but the trend (signal) still exists.
and yet temps have leveled off, and in some years decreased?
quote:Regardless of where you stand on this issue, this shouldn't be surprising. The earth has gone through drastic changes and events over history. Of course, this highlights that there are many things outside of our influence and control, but that doesn't mean we don't have at least some influence.
How in the HELL is it possible that receding lakes and glaciers are uncovering previous civilizations, if man has continued to produce C02 since their evolution? How did the Earth ever cool enough to cover their previous industrial activities?
Posted on 3/14/17 at 8:15 am to InTheDetails
quote:Well and you apparently failed the sarcasm/trolling detection course.
Oh my...and you got 10 upvotes SMH. This is 3rd grade Earth science, which I'm assuming you failed.
Posted on 3/14/17 at 8:18 am to buckeye_vol
I guess I did lol. It just seemed to fall in line with the majority of this board. It did get 10 upvotes, so...
Posted on 3/14/17 at 8:22 am to RobbBobb
quote:
Yeah, that's not true
A better question... is it true at ANY level/concentrations..even using the most extreme or improbable numbers?
E.g. greenhouse gas, water vapor, CO2, etc. can alter climate if they are present in extraordinary concentrations.. but we aren't there yet nor will we be there in our lifetimes
This post was edited on 3/14/17 at 8:23 am
Posted on 3/14/17 at 8:23 am to InTheDetails
quote:Well I would like to think at least some of those are for the sarcasm, but who knows.
I guess I did lol. It just seemed to fall in line with the majority of this board. It did get 10 upvotes, so...
Posted on 3/14/17 at 8:35 am to bmy
quote:Like volcanoes?
n) and introduce massive amounts of green house gasses, water vapor,
CO2, etc.. over hundreds of years..
No, we can't reproduce volcanoes.
You fail.
Posted on 3/14/17 at 8:40 am to bhtigerfan
quote:Speak for yourself. I made a volcano in 5th grade science class.
Like volcanoes?
No, we can't reproduce volcanoes.
You fail.
Posted on 3/14/17 at 9:32 am to bmy
Look up during the day, you see that very bright thing in the sky. That's your climate control device. If you can't control that, you can't control the climate on our planet... or any other planet.
Posted on 3/14/17 at 9:35 am to tarzana
quote:This would be true if everything was 1:1 and linear like iosh's chart. But it's not reality. CO2 radiative forcing isn't linear. Radiative heat losses aren't linear. Temperature and water vapor are both non linear and have huge discrete discontinuities.
By continuing to pump CO2 into the atmosphere, and methane from cow emissions, eventually a point of no return will be reached, where the Earth's retention of solar radiation will overwhelm its ability to dispel heat, and a Venus-like runaway greenhouse inferno will materialize
This post was edited on 3/14/17 at 9:36 am
Posted on 3/14/17 at 9:40 am to ccomeaux
quote:
Look up during the day, you see that very bright thing in the sky. That's your climate control device. If you can't control that, you can't control the climate on our planet... or any other planet.
Agree.
But IF we could.....
Warmer is better!
Colder equals less plant life leading to less animal life. Less life makes it harder for human life to live. Raise the thermostat! Oh, I forgot, we can't.
Posted on 3/14/17 at 9:41 am to bmy
quote:
A better question... is it true at ANY level/concentrations..even using the most extreme or improbable numbers?
This thread is still going!
Lets establish a baseline. bmy...what percentage of the atmosphere is CO2, naturally occurring and man made?
What would that percentage be?
Posted on 3/14/17 at 9:42 am to bmy
Has the earth ever been colder or hotter than the present?
What is the optimal temperature of the earth?
What is the optimal temperature of the earth?
Posted on 3/14/17 at 10:01 am to bmy
quote:
to be clear you're saying that there would be no difference in the climate of the 3 planets? i'm not an alarmist or anything.. i think we should strive to control the climate to do the greatest amount of good possible
Who decides what's best?
Do we let a UN committee tell us we need to do to "maximize" the climate? Who decides if South Africa benefits at Canada's expense, or if the US should curtail emissions so New Guinea's benefits?
As climate changes it affects cities, states, nations and entire continents. If there were a magic controller, a T-stat for the Earth, who sets it?
My wife and I argue all the time where to set the temperatures in our house, and now you claim we should try and set the climate for the entire world????????
Doesn't that seem a bit arrogant???
This post was edited on 3/14/17 at 1:54 pm
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News