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Message
Question about "registered guns"
Posted on 2/13/17 at 8:21 am
Posted on 2/13/17 at 8:21 am
I've read on here there isn't a federal list of "registered guns". I always assumed that when they call in your background check they attach your name to that serial number? So I guess I have two questions...
1. Do y'all really believe the government trashes that info after it's called in?
2. Can they research it for evidence in a crime? For instance, someone is a suspect in a shooting and the gun was a 9mm. Can they cross a name to a database to see if the suspect had purchased a 9mm and get a warrant to compare ballistics?
Btw-no I'm not a suspect in a crime I just always assumed that's how it worked but read on here such database didn't exist.
1. Do y'all really believe the government trashes that info after it's called in?
2. Can they research it for evidence in a crime? For instance, someone is a suspect in a shooting and the gun was a 9mm. Can they cross a name to a database to see if the suspect had purchased a 9mm and get a warrant to compare ballistics?
Btw-no I'm not a suspect in a crime I just always assumed that's how it worked but read on here such database didn't exist.
Posted on 2/13/17 at 8:23 am to PT24-7
Yes
No
No
This post was edited on 2/13/17 at 8:24 am
Posted on 2/13/17 at 8:25 am to PT24-7
We have a couple posters that work at gun stores, so they will know better than I will, but I don't think any information is put into the system about the gun you are purchasing.
I think they put your info in and run the background check but they don't indicate which gun you are purchasing, so there would be no serial number to attach to the gun. I could be completely wrong on this.
I think they put your info in and run the background check but they don't indicate which gun you are purchasing, so there would be no serial number to attach to the gun. I could be completely wrong on this.
Posted on 2/13/17 at 8:29 am to PT24-7
1: Not certain on that
2: I know every store is required to keep 4473 forms for like 20 or more years so they probably look at that first (could be wrong)
2: I know every store is required to keep 4473 forms for like 20 or more years so they probably look at that first (could be wrong)
Posted on 2/13/17 at 8:39 am to PT24-7
When the 4473 is called in the only thing that is told to the FBI about the purchase is if its a long gun or handgun sale.
NO, you have to start with serial number to trace a firearm, and start at the manufacturer.
ETA:
absolutely 100% illegal
NO, you have to start with serial number to trace a firearm, and start at the manufacturer.
ETA:
quote:
Can they cross a name to a database
absolutely 100% illegal
This post was edited on 2/13/17 at 8:40 am
Posted on 2/13/17 at 9:06 am to PT24-7
They are required by law to dispose of it.
Truth is they have recently been caught not doing so. My son is a FFL and his store sells more guns than most. His life is in the minutia of what is and is not supposed to happen during the process. He was telling the last administration was keeping info they were not allowed to by law.
Fwiw.
Truth is they have recently been caught not doing so. My son is a FFL and his store sells more guns than most. His life is in the minutia of what is and is not supposed to happen during the process. He was telling the last administration was keeping info they were not allowed to by law.
Fwiw.
Posted on 2/13/17 at 9:13 am to civiltiger07
From the horse's mouth: 4473 Retention per the ATF website
They trace SN from the manufacturer to seller and can damn sure get back to original owner, w/in 20 yrs of sale at least. At least that's what I gather.
They trace SN from the manufacturer to seller and can damn sure get back to original owner, w/in 20 yrs of sale at least. At least that's what I gather.
Posted on 2/13/17 at 9:58 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
This is what I was curious about.
I know they aren't suppose to but I would almost bet they probably do. I just don't know if they can access for any crime or if it has to be major.
I've always assumed they wouldn't make you fill out forms only to trash them. Hope I'm wrong
I know they aren't suppose to but I would almost bet they probably do. I just don't know if they can access for any crime or if it has to be major.
I've always assumed they wouldn't make you fill out forms only to trash them. Hope I'm wrong
Posted on 2/13/17 at 10:31 am to White Bear
quote:
They trace SN from the manufacturer to seller and can damn sure get back to original owner, w/in 20 yrs of sale at least. At least that's what I gather.
i was told the same thing by BRPD when some AH stole my .22 pistol out of my truck a few years ago. he said it may take "a while" but some guns are recovered. fwiw he cited some specific examples to me.
Posted on 2/13/17 at 10:54 am to PT24-7
quote:
I've always assumed they wouldn't make you fill out forms only to trash them
The FFL has to keep the forms for as long as they remain in business.
If they shut down they are required to turn them over to government. Now do they make list when this happens? Its the government, so probably.
When you do a 4473 to purchase a firearm the government doesn't get a copy of the 4473.
All the government would be able to make a list of from background checks is how many firearms you have and if they are a long gun or handgun.
Posted on 2/13/17 at 11:12 am to civiltiger07
quote:
The FFL has to keep the forms for as long as they remain in business.
Currently, 4473s are only required to be kept for 20 years. After 20 years the FFL can destroy them, it's not on the government to do the destroying here. When the ATF audits a dealer they only go through their last year of 4473s at the FFL's location. So, even if they were illegally recording the info from the 4473 (which some report they have seen) it would still make for a very incomplete list.
quote:
All the government would be able to make a list of from background checks is how many firearms you have and if they are a long gun or handgun.
They would not know how many firearms you have since as many firearms can be purchased on 1 4473/background check as a customer wants. So, for a given background check, they only "know" John Smith is trying to purchase at least 1 long gun/handgun/other, but it could also be 100.
The only exception to all of this is if you are purchasing more than 1 handgun in a 5 day (shops business days, not 5 running days) time period. In that case a separate form is filled out by the FFL which gives all of your info as well as all of the guns info to the FBI contract company and local CLEO. This is supposed to be destroyed after a relatively short period of time. However, I think this info is what the ATF recently caught some shite about for not destroying, but I could be misremembering.
Posted on 2/13/17 at 11:15 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:IF this were true people should be going to jail.
He was telling the last administration was keeping info they were not allowed to by law.
Posted on 2/13/17 at 12:01 pm to PT24-7
You guys should read this link
quote:
The Justice Dept. under Bill Clinton, had built a computer capable of checking out every American, from one spot in West Virginia, controlled by the FBI, a dream project the Bureau was dying for, and the quarter-billion dollar computer was incapable of deleting a record. That’s what Janet Reno wanted us to believe, it’s what she told us, and who knows — maybe it’s exactly what she built. We have no way to know. [Note: C’mon it’s a computer, there’s no such thing as one that can’t delete a file, she lied through her teeth, had planned this all along].
quote:
It’s worse than that. Multiple federal sources have revealed that the information checking infrastructure of the NICS system, and its interconnected NCIC and III data systems, link with international sources of criminal data. Record destruction is not a requirement anywhere but here (and even here it can be disregarded at will, as we’ve seen), so “privacy” might as well all be wishful thinking. On top of this, ten consecutive sets of backups are made, it’s routine, according to agents within the FBI, and these are sequentially stored and destroyed, over some time frame, on and off site… it’s complicated.
Posted on 2/13/17 at 1:01 pm to lsufan1971
Dang, what does that mean for those of us who don't know a lot about computers or acronyms?
Posted on 2/13/17 at 1:28 pm to PT24-7
Absolutely nothing. Jesus you people are paranoid.
And this is coming from a guy who only buys 80% lowers and mostly used guns
And this is coming from a guy who only buys 80% lowers and mostly used guns
Posted on 2/13/17 at 1:41 pm to PT24-7
when they do the background check (in louisiana atleast) they do not put the serial number in the NICS system. They just put in the basic information that you put on the 4473 form. The only thing they put in says what gun you put is if it is a lower, rifle (includes shotguns, except pistol grip), pistol, and other (any pistol grip shotgun). They absolutely do not put in the serial number of the gun. That strictly sa
Posted on 2/13/17 at 1:44 pm to UpToPar
quote:
but I don't think any information is put into the system about the gun you are purchasing.
The only thing that the FBI (NICS system) records is the type of gun (pistol, rifle, other)
Posted on 2/13/17 at 2:56 pm to CarRamrod
quote:
IF this were true people should be going to jail.
Should be yes. Will they? Doubt it.
Posted on 2/13/17 at 5:09 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
If you want to avoid all of this, just get a CCL or your states equivalent, assuming that it is exempt from background checks when buying firearms. I am in MS, and I have a firearms permit (MS equivalent of a CCL). If you have one, you just show the FFL, and they are not required to call anything in, and can sell it just as if it was a box of bullets.
Posted on 2/13/17 at 5:54 pm to TigernMS12
quote:
If you want to avoid all of this, just get a CCL or your states equivalent, assuming that it is exempt from background checks when buying firearms. I am in MS, and I have a firearms permit (MS equivalent of a CCL). If you have one, you just show the FFL, and they are not required to call anything in, and can sell it just as if it was a box of bullets.
Not if its a lifetime. Get the one that you have to renew. in louisiana its every five years.
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