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When it comes to replacing Miles, history is not on our side
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:03 pm
I've come to grips with the idea that it is likely time for a change at LSU. However, finding a coach that can replace the success Miles has had will not be an easy task, and any who thinks otherwise is naïve.
Is there a coach out there that can improve upon what Miles has done? Sure, but the problem is that the vast majority of coaches, particularly the realistic candidates, are likely to underperform Miles.
Here is what history can tell us about how often the grass is greener on the other side:
Nebraska 2003: Fired Frank Solich (.766 W%) and hired Bill Callahan. AD said he would not "let Nebraska gravitate into mediocrity" with Solich. Callahan was fired after 4 seasons and a .551 W%.
Tennessee 2008: Forced Phillip Fulmer (.745 W%) to step down. The Volunteers have hired 3 coaches since then and sport a .482 W% since Fulmer was let go. Of note is the fact that Tennessee still sports a higher all-time winning percentage than LSU, but it did not insulate them from mediocrity.
Florida 2002: Steve Spurrier left after posting a .813 W% at Florida. It was a premier program in the country at the time. The Florida AD was turned down by Mike Shanahan and Bob Stoops. Ron Zook ultimately landed the job and proceeded to go 23-14 over three seasons at a school that took six years to lose 14 games before Zook got there.
Michigan 2007: Forced out Lloyd Carr (.753 W%) for his lackluster record against Ohio State (6-7). Hired hot-shot Rich Rodriguez and limped to a 15-22 record over the next 3 seasons. Followed up Rich Rod with Brady Hoke, who went 31-20 from 2011-2014 including 1-3 against Ohio State.
Alabama 1997: Even Alabama is not infallible. After Gene Stallings retired in 1996 with an .805 W%, it took Alabama 10 seasons, 4 coaches, a .553 W%, and a textbook scandal to get Nick Saban. That record includes their forfeited wins. Officially, Alabama had a losing record during that span and a .486 W%.
All top programs at the time, all failed miserably with their new coaches.
In fact, since 2000, I can only find 4 programs that have replaced coaches with .700+ W% and had even greater success with the newcomer. Furthermore, no program has ever forced out a coach with a winning percentage higher than .700 AND found a successor who generated better results.
TCU "replaced" Dennis Franchionne (.714 W%) with Gary Patterson in 2000 after Franchionne took the Alabama job. Patterson has led TCU to a .750 W% since then.
Boise State in 2000 replaced Dirk Koetter (.722 W%) with Dan Hawkins, who posted a .828 W% from 2001-2005. Boise found even greater success replacing Hawkins with Chris Petersen who produced a .885 W% from 2006-2013.
Miami in 2001 replaced Butch Davis (.718 W%) with Larry Coker, who went 60-15 from 2001-2006 for an .800 W%. Coker was fired in 2006 after posting consecutively worse seasons each year. Although Coker improved upon Butch Davis' winning percentage, I don't think anyone would consider Coker a success story.
And finally, LSU in 2005, who replaced Nick Saban and his .750 W% with Les Miles, who has posted an .775 W% since then.
Long story short, any rational observer can see that there should be significant concern over the ability to replace Miles with someone who will generate greater success.
Is there a coach out there that can improve upon what Miles has done? Sure, but the problem is that the vast majority of coaches, particularly the realistic candidates, are likely to underperform Miles.
Here is what history can tell us about how often the grass is greener on the other side:
Nebraska 2003: Fired Frank Solich (.766 W%) and hired Bill Callahan. AD said he would not "let Nebraska gravitate into mediocrity" with Solich. Callahan was fired after 4 seasons and a .551 W%.
Tennessee 2008: Forced Phillip Fulmer (.745 W%) to step down. The Volunteers have hired 3 coaches since then and sport a .482 W% since Fulmer was let go. Of note is the fact that Tennessee still sports a higher all-time winning percentage than LSU, but it did not insulate them from mediocrity.
Florida 2002: Steve Spurrier left after posting a .813 W% at Florida. It was a premier program in the country at the time. The Florida AD was turned down by Mike Shanahan and Bob Stoops. Ron Zook ultimately landed the job and proceeded to go 23-14 over three seasons at a school that took six years to lose 14 games before Zook got there.
Michigan 2007: Forced out Lloyd Carr (.753 W%) for his lackluster record against Ohio State (6-7). Hired hot-shot Rich Rodriguez and limped to a 15-22 record over the next 3 seasons. Followed up Rich Rod with Brady Hoke, who went 31-20 from 2011-2014 including 1-3 against Ohio State.
Alabama 1997: Even Alabama is not infallible. After Gene Stallings retired in 1996 with an .805 W%, it took Alabama 10 seasons, 4 coaches, a .553 W%, and a textbook scandal to get Nick Saban. That record includes their forfeited wins. Officially, Alabama had a losing record during that span and a .486 W%.
All top programs at the time, all failed miserably with their new coaches.
In fact, since 2000, I can only find 4 programs that have replaced coaches with .700+ W% and had even greater success with the newcomer. Furthermore, no program has ever forced out a coach with a winning percentage higher than .700 AND found a successor who generated better results.
TCU "replaced" Dennis Franchionne (.714 W%) with Gary Patterson in 2000 after Franchionne took the Alabama job. Patterson has led TCU to a .750 W% since then.
Boise State in 2000 replaced Dirk Koetter (.722 W%) with Dan Hawkins, who posted a .828 W% from 2001-2005. Boise found even greater success replacing Hawkins with Chris Petersen who produced a .885 W% from 2006-2013.
Miami in 2001 replaced Butch Davis (.718 W%) with Larry Coker, who went 60-15 from 2001-2006 for an .800 W%. Coker was fired in 2006 after posting consecutively worse seasons each year. Although Coker improved upon Butch Davis' winning percentage, I don't think anyone would consider Coker a success story.
And finally, LSU in 2005, who replaced Nick Saban and his .750 W% with Les Miles, who has posted an .775 W% since then.
Long story short, any rational observer can see that there should be significant concern over the ability to replace Miles with someone who will generate greater success.
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:05 pm to slackster
So you stick with a declining or average program because of the fear of the unknown? Next coach could win, you know. A coach with strong fundamentals could do wonders with our players and recruits.
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:07 pm to slackster
quote:
slackster
Great post. Spot on.
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:08 pm to slackster
Please don't use facts in here. It confuses the fly off the handle emotional knuckle draggers.
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:08 pm to slackster
There is no science to picking a coach. But it is faulty reasoning to believe that because teams are often unsuccessful at hiring a great coach, that it somehow follows that LSU can't. I mean, he's gone at some point right? Does that mean we suck eventually anyway? And LSU has made two great hires in a row, right? Why not a third? It's not science. You either get a great coach or you don't. You stack the odds in your favor by hiring a proven guy from a great conference who has already done it.And you hope it works out. That is as good as it will ever be.
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:10 pm to slackster
> Lots of words about why head coaching changes don't work
> one line about a head coaching job change at LSU that did
oh.
> one line about a head coaching job change at LSU that did
oh.
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:12 pm to slackster
This makes me want to rethink everything
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:13 pm to slackster
A coach named Gundy replaced Miles at Oklahoma State and has taken that team to heights they haven't been in a while. They weren't even really that good when Miles was there save for a couple of wins against Oklahoma. Gundy did better than miles at OSU. Who says someone can't do better here? Some of you are delusional for thinking this guy is some great coach. He's a great recruiter, mediocre coach.
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:21 pm to slackster
you can either let the program slip away, or try and correct it.
also, you're looking at it wrong. The circumstances in replacing Miles SHOULD NOT be a factor. In the end, you are looking for a new coach; bottom line
The same way a team is if they are moving on from a coach with a bad winning percentage. With that being said, let's look at a few other P5 schools that have gotten it right recently.
Ohio St -Urban Meyer
Notre Dam- Brian Kelley
Florida State- Jimbo.
UCLA- Jim Mora Jr
OK St- Mike Gundy
UNC- Larry Fedora
Baylor- Art Briles
Clemson- Dabo
Stanford- David Shaw
Mich- Harbaugh
and shite, just look at the SEC west
It boils down to good hires and bad hires. Not winning percentages of previous coaches. That has no bearing on who you hire. You either make a good decision or you dont.
also, you're looking at it wrong. The circumstances in replacing Miles SHOULD NOT be a factor. In the end, you are looking for a new coach; bottom line
The same way a team is if they are moving on from a coach with a bad winning percentage. With that being said, let's look at a few other P5 schools that have gotten it right recently.
Ohio St -Urban Meyer
Notre Dam- Brian Kelley
Florida State- Jimbo.
UCLA- Jim Mora Jr
OK St- Mike Gundy
UNC- Larry Fedora
Baylor- Art Briles
Clemson- Dabo
Stanford- David Shaw
Mich- Harbaugh
and shite, just look at the SEC west
It boils down to good hires and bad hires. Not winning percentages of previous coaches. That has no bearing on who you hire. You either make a good decision or you dont.
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:21 pm to slackster
Just curious...are you using the old coaches' overall win percentage at the school? What was their win percentage for, say, the final 4 years?
No one doubts that LSU had great years under Miles. But most of those were early in his tenure.
No one doubts that LSU had great years under Miles. But most of those were early in his tenure.
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:21 pm to slackster
Yes, be careful what you wish for.....
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:23 pm to slackster
And there are definitely no other facts or circumstances that had any effect on those programs that may have struggled.
![](https://images.tigerdroppings.com/Images/Icons/Iconrotflmao.gif)
![](https://images.tigerdroppings.com/Images/Icons/Iconrotflmao.gif)
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:27 pm to slackster
quote:
Nebraska 2003: Fired Frank Solich (.766 W%) and hired Bill Callahan. AD said he would not "let Nebraska gravitate into mediocrity" with Solich. Callahan was fired after 4 seasons and a .551 W%.
Yup. Be careful what you wish for.
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:38 pm to slackster
quote:
Nebraska 2003: Fired Frank Solich (.766 W%) and hired Bill Callahan. AD said he would not "let Nebraska gravitate into mediocrity" with Solich. Callahan was fired after 4 seasons and a .551 W%.
As a Husker my two cents (and will probably echo a lot of what the other Husker fan said above).
LSU reminds me a great deal of Nebraska in 2003. Nebraska was THE power in the late 90's. Between 1993-1999 we went 81-8 which is simply an amazing streak.
Went to the 2001 National title game (that we really didn't belong in).
After that ill-fated end to the 2001 season the program started to slip a bit. there was some unrest as Nebraska went from a National title contender to losing to Ole Miss in the Indy Bowl, which is a pretty far drop.
The next year the Huskers rebounded but had 3 lopsided losses scattered throughout the season (K-State, Texas and Mizzou). In ways very similar to LSU this season.
The administration panicked. Instead of giving time for emotions to subside they cut Solich (horrible mistake) and hired Callahan (and even worse mistake).
Fast forward 12 years later and the Huskers are still trying to find their footing.
LSU is a great program right now and easily one of the top ten best in the nation at this point. I'm not going to advocate Miles keeping his job or getting fired. I'm not an LSU fan and it wouldn't be my place to speculate or formulate an accurate opinion.
From experience If I were LSU I would make sure that I had every possible aspect of this potential move studied extensively before making a decision. Emotionally it may seem like the right move. As a Nebraska fan I can say that sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side.
It is possible that LSU could make a great higher and LSU will become the next great dynasty. It is also possible that with the wrong hire you will be talking to us Huskers about how good the "old days" used to be.
If I were you I would be very careful and cautious and take time before rushing to any decision.
Best of luck in whatever direction you decide to go.
![](https://images.tigerdroppings.com/Images/Icons/Iconcheers.gif)
quote:
Little Frankie deserved what he got.He was 16-10 in his last two seasons. Just because the next coaches were EVEN WORSE doesn't change the fact that Solich had totally lost control and presiding over a loss of Nebraska identity.
He has one bad year (2002). He made changes in 2003 and should have been given at least another year before making any changes. We made a mistake and have paid dearly for it.
This post was edited on 11/23/15 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:47 pm to slackster
quote:
finding a coach that can replace the success Miles has had will not be an easy task, and any who thinks otherwise is naïve.
not only naïve but some of them aren't very smart either. they don't have a clue to how difficult the process is but whine like babies wanting their way anyway.
Posted on 11/23/15 at 1:47 pm to slackster
Why no mention of Ohio State?
Posted on 11/23/15 at 2:16 pm to slackster
FSU forced one of the winningest coaches of all time (Bobby Bowden) and Jimbo Fisher has an even higher winning percentage than him at 83%. Bowden won at 75% (though Bowden had the harder job because he made them into a football school). Jimbo won 3 straight ACC titles and had a 29-game winning streak that included going 14-0 with a BCS National Championshp.
You are right in that you do have to be very careful and proceed with caution and appreciation because FSU's situation does not happen often, but it can.
You are right in that you do have to be very careful and proceed with caution and appreciation because FSU's situation does not happen often, but it can.
Posted on 11/23/15 at 2:18 pm to slackster
quote:
Long story short, any rational observer can see that there should be significant concern over the ability to replace Miles with someone who will generate greater success.
Bingo.
Especially immediately. Been saying this for Days.
Posted on 11/23/15 at 2:26 pm to slackster
quote:
When it comes to replacing Miles, history is not on our side
but we have never replaced him!!!!
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