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Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:26 pm to NOFOX
quote:
Williams is not a Suh type propsect or even Dareus. Can you honestly say that Williams is that much better of a prospect than Cam Jordan was if at all? Williams wouldn't sniff the top 10 in that 2011 draft.
Where in the frick did I say anything about Williams being better than Suh or even Cam Jordan? Williams has huge potential but who really knows if Tennessee is locked into Williams at this point? Just because some mocks on the internet say so. This shite happens every year & the pre mock drafts tend to be more wrong than they are right.
quote:
Wisenhunt is not the GM. That would be Ruston Webster. If the GM lets Whiz proceed with Met and Mariota (who ownership likes) shows progress, while Met bombs again, he is gone.
Both will be gone regardless of path chosen if either decision fails. The Cowboys were in a similar situation just last draft. Jerrah wanted to take Manziel but Jason Garrett was totally against it. Garrett won out & the Cowboys took Zack Martin. Martin's play help but them in the playoffs this past season. It's not always about the choices team's make, sometimes it's about the ones they don't make. Like I said before, the draft is chess not checkers.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:29 pm to NOFOX
quote:
do not think Mett fills that role. Mariota is probably a bad pick
And if Tenn feels the same way, why would they throw away a #2 overall draft pick on a bad pick? They'd be better off riding w/ met for the year and grabbing a QB in the 1st next year (or taking a flier on a 2ns tier QB this year).
Also, w/ Mett being a late draft pick last year (6th?), they typically give them 2-3 years to get their feet under them before cutting bait w the GMs & HCs.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:32 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
You are making a false argument. None of those players you are showng are JUST pass rushers. LT had 9 picks for crying out loud.
I'm not against taking a great pass rusher IF he can also play other phases of the game, like the guys you are showing.
I'm 100% against taking someone who is just a pass rusher as those guys rarely work out. If you can't play at least two phases of the game on defense you aren't going to last.
I made this exact same point to his exact same set of pictures in another thread. He lists guys that were 3 Down players as his evidence that 1-dimensional pass rushers will be great.
So he addresses your contention with:
quote:
Where did I saw LT was strictly a pass rusher? He was the most versatile OLB to ever play. Ware, Thomas, Miller & Suggs are all strictly pass rushers.
1. remove LT from your list then, and
2. Suggs, Matthews and Miller are NOT 1 dimensional pass rushers. I can not speak to Derrick Thomas, because I do now know enough about his play against the run; however, Ware to my understanding was solid in run support along with pass rush.
here is a list of every down LB's Notice that Matthews, Miller and Suggs are on this list. (on a side note, I follow the Broncos, and I assure you Miller is considered the real deal in Denver, not just a pass rusher.) This list by this website was comprised by using PFF's stats. I found it with a simple google search, and it was the first website available with many others to look through.
quote:
According to Pro Football Focus, 45% of all defensive snaps last year were played in a nickel formation, with an additional 12% in a dime look. This means that linebackers who don't play in subpackages are in danger of missing 50%+ of their team's defensive snaps. Since this dramatic decrease in playing time is a huge blow to a player's value, it becomes critical that we continually track which players are staying on the field on a near every down basis.
Denver: Von Miller
Baltimore: Terrell Suggs
Green Bay: Clay Matthews
and here is an article in 2011 detailing Ware as the number 1 in run stop rate
quote:
DeMarcus Ware was 'good enough' an amazing 91% of the time.
and funny enough, the next sentece references again a player you keep touting as a "pass rush only guy"
quote:
The number two player on the list, Baltimore's Terrell Suggs had a 85% RSR
So what we have here is you seeing all star players that are and have been sack leaders as strictly pass rushers due to them being sack leaders. In actuality, these players are the exact thing I an others are championing: OLB's that are not just pass rushers but are 3 down players that will stop the run as well. These guys aren't going to be called upon to pass defend as much as a MLB, but you can't disregard the necessity for them to defend their zone when they are called upon to do so.
quote:
The part you fail to see is that if every guy I pictured were in this draft, it would be the same posters with the same shite calling them one dimensional pass rushers.
the part you fail to see is that 5 of the 6 guys you picture are the exact thing we are stating the Saints SHOULD draft with a first round pick.
This post was edited on 4/8/15 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:34 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
Watch Mariota ends up having a huge slide come draft night similar to Dan Marino, Aaron Rodgers, Jimmy Clausen, Brady Quinn, Johnny Manziel & Teddy Bridgewater.
He can't fall past 20.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:35 pm to NOFOX
quote:
He can't fall past 20.
I'm not advocating it, but how funny would it be if we traded up to 19 and took him
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:36 pm to Midget Death Squad
quote:
I'm not advocating it, but how funny would it be if we traded up to 19 and took him
i'd laugh so not hard.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:36 pm to BigBrod81
I said might be dumbass. I didn't say he is now, but he could be and he's the only one even close to being comparable in those pass rushers mentioned. He doesn't closely resemble anyone else
Also, Beasely isn't comparable to those 3 at all. Those three were thick as shite in their legs , Beasely is not. He's fast and he's a good rusher, but it's about more than that. I would still take him, but at 13.
There isn't a single player in this draft to move up for in the top 5 except MAYBE Leonard Williams
Also, Beasely isn't comparable to those 3 at all. Those three were thick as shite in their legs , Beasely is not. He's fast and he's a good rusher, but it's about more than that. I would still take him, but at 13.
There isn't a single player in this draft to move up for in the top 5 except MAYBE Leonard Williams
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:38 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
DJ had 60 pass defenses and 11 picks. He was GREAT in coverage.
I can clearly tell you never watched DT play at all. The majority of those passes defended can on deflections from causing pressure. Same goes for those interceptions. Thomas WAS NOT a coverage OLB/DE. Maybe if watch this you will understand.
LINK
quote:
And no not all of these draft guys are going to come anywhere to the guys you showed.
The only pass rusher in this draft I'm saying has elite pass rushing ability is Beasley. Don't make it seem like I'm saying every pass rusher will be great because that isn't what I said. If anyone in this draft turns out to be elite, it will be Beasley.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:41 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
Ware, Thomas, Miller & Suggs are all strictly pass rushers.
What? Lol do you even watch football? Suggs lines up all over the field and does everything well. Blitz, stunt and can even decently cover man to man as well as stuff the run.
I'll give you Ware, but Von Miller also plays very good zone defense at times and is a beast at stopping the run as well.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:48 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
I'll give you Ware
don't. read my previous post along with the links to facts to prove otherwise. Ware was #1 in the league that year with Suggs as 2nd.
quote:
Von Miller also plays very good zone defense at times and is a beast at stopping the run as well.
this is truth
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:53 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
Both will be gone regardless of path chosen if either decision fails. The Cowboys were in a similar situation just last draft. Jerrah wanted to take Manziel but Jason Garrett was totally against it. Garrett won out & the Cowboys took Zack Martin. Martin's play help but them in the playoffs this past season. It's not always about the choices team's make, sometimes it's about the ones they don't make. Like I said before, the draft is chess not checkers.
The Cowboys were absolutely not in a similar situation last draft. While Jerry wanted Manziel, in addition to Garrett and scouts, his son Stephen was also vehemently against Manziel. The reason being that the Cowboys already had a franchise QB on the roster to take advantage of the upgraded o-line who had also recently signed a 7 year $115M contract. The Titans do not.
Mett is a 6th round pick on a nothing contract who went 0-6 and got injured. He was 107-of-179 yards for 1,412 yards with eight touchdowns, seven interceptions and two lost fumbles. He also took 18 sacks and went three-and-out on 49% of his drives.
He has a great arm and throws some nice deep balls, but his confidence is misplaced and he has not shown himself capable of being a franchise QB. If there was a better prospect than Mariota, then there would be no debate.
I still think it's a coin flip. Ultimately I believe Tenn wants to trade down, but if they do not get any good offers it will be interesting to see where they go. I do not think Whiz wants Mariota, but I do believe ownership wants a face of the franchise.
NOTE: I am not saying that Tennessee should draft Mariota. His likelihood of success seems low and he should go later in the 1st, but this is a notably weak QB class and Ten has no one to compete with Mett. So I think there is a distinct possibility that he goes no. 2 against the wishes of Whisenhunt.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:53 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
I said might be dumbass.
You compared Fowler to someone who set the NCAA record with 24 sacks in a season but I'm the dumbass?
quote:
Also, Beasely isn't comparable to those 3 at all. Those three were thick as shite in their legs
Posted on 4/8/15 at 1:54 pm to LosLobos111
Never hurts to just see what picks are going for in order to value what you have or are considering taking.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 2:16 pm to BigBrod81
I think you're missing my point and the point of the thread which was talking about us going into the top 5.
There isn't single person in the draft worth giving up 2 1st rounders for.
There isn't single person in the draft worth giving up 2 1st rounders for.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 2:30 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
Suggs lines up all over the field and does everything well.
I guess you didn't notice during the bloodbath in the trenches this past season against the Ravens, that they rotated Suggs & Dumervil with Courtney Upshaw & Pernell McPhee depending on the down & distance situation.
This was an analysis about Ware going into the draft.
quote:
Analysis: Positives Demarcus is an excellent edge rusher with outstanding speed and change of direction agility. He lacks the ideal frame you look for in an every-down end and could be limited to situational duties in the NFL because of his lack of bulk. However, if one should watch his battles against 344-pound tackle Nate Griffin (Marshall) and 330-pounder Andrew Whitworth (LSU) in 2004, you will see a player that compensates for a lack of size with a relentless motor and excellent lateral agility. He is a fluid and flexible runner who plays at a low pad level and has proven to be very successful playing off the edge. Even with his long arms, when he works in-line, he struggles to disengage when the larger blockers lock on to him.
LINK
Sound familiar? What about Suggs? People forget how he bombed out at the combine which caused him drop. Questions came about as to whether he was physically gifted enough to go high in the draft.
quote:
But Suggs will hit the campus track again in front of the scouts' stopwatches in an attempt to set the record straight about his speed, following a horrendous workout before 31 of the league's 32 teams March 26.
After running the 40-yard dash in the 4.8-second range — much slower than advertised — Suggs wants a do-over.
"I see the fire in his eyes now," says Suggs' agent, Gary Wichard. "This is a challenge to him. He insisted on this."
At stake may be a slot within the first round worth millions. Will he go third to Houston? Fourth to Chicago? Fifth to Dallas? Sixth to Arizona?
Had Suggs (6-3, 262) clocked less than 4.6, he might have cemented his status as a top-five pick and a certified rare breed.
LINK
What about Von Miller?
quote:
Weaknesses:
Very small frame
Gets overwhelmed at point of attack
Weak versus the run
Hand use could improve
Needs to add strength
Strictly a 3-4 outside linebacker
Summary: Von Miller doesn't have the size you look for, but he gets the most out of his abilities and has an extremely high level of athleticism. With the 3-4 scheme in the NFL now, you don't need to be 6-4, 255 pounds to play outside linebacker. All you need is a great first step and elite speed, and Miller brings both to the table.
LINK
Same shite, different toilet. Round & round we go.
This post was edited on 4/8/15 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 4/8/15 at 2:34 pm to NOFOX
quote:
He can't fall past 20.
What does that have to do with anything? A slide is slide either way it comes whether it's to pick 12 or 20 when all these mocks have him going top 5.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 2:38 pm to BigBrod81
I have to apologize. I mixed up Derrick Thomas with Derrick Johnson. One guy is a one dimensional (excellent) pass rusher and the other was great in coverage and in run defense while providing some pass rush.
Give me Johnson over Thomas any day.
Give me Johnson over Thomas any day.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 2:44 pm to bonethug0108
It's all good bruh. 
Wait? What? One is in the Hall of Fame the other is just a really good linebacker. You are way off here. Thomas was absolutely dominant & took over games. His 8 sacks in a game is still an NFL record.
quote:
Give me Johnson over Thomas any day.
Wait? What? One is in the Hall of Fame the other is just a really good linebacker. You are way off here. Thomas was absolutely dominant & took over games. His 8 sacks in a game is still an NFL record.
This post was edited on 4/8/15 at 3:08 pm
Posted on 4/8/15 at 3:14 pm to BigBrod81
I'd take LT over both of them for what it's worth. Not saying DT was bad but I prefer someone who is more versatile unless my team already has players that can play the run and cover. We currently don't have many guys to do that.
Johnson would be a better fit for our current team than Thomas.
Johnson would be a better fit for our current team than Thomas.
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