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re: Zach Lowe on Potential Summer Pels Trade
Posted on 4/6/15 at 9:36 pm to TigerinATL
Posted on 4/6/15 at 9:36 pm to TigerinATL
If kd was healthy, we'd be fighting Dallas for that 8th seed. Our health has been bad, but so has theirs.
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Posted on 4/6/15 at 9:51 pm to TigerinATL
I look for them to make a big move. The move we have all wanted. Not sure who it would be going, but not Davis or Holiday. Likely not Asik unless they got Valanciunas... And not sure they would want him now... Depends on how they see him.
All in to get a wing, aside from the above, by the trade deadline... I hope.
All in to get a wing, aside from the above, by the trade deadline... I hope.
Posted on 4/7/15 at 5:21 am to 42
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in part out of genuine concern for the collective.
You can only lead a horse to water...
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could not care less about being right about the particulars. I care about understanding how these guys think and what factors matter most in shaping the future.
+1 I find the idea of team building incredibly fascinating. It's why I keep circling back to this general conversation.
Posted on 4/7/15 at 6:58 am to corndeaux
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+1 I find the idea of team building incredibly fascinating. It's why I keep circling back to this general conversation.
Admittedly, I don't have the time as a lot of you guys to gain in depth knowledge of as many players, cap issues and development approaches (saving widows and orphans is really time consuming), but I keep coming back to the opinion that for most franchises, you've got to hope the stars align just right and that some crucial "guesses" pay off. There's absolutely no doubt, though, that some front offices have demonstrated over time their acumen consistently (hello San Antonio). But you also have to be flexible and able to adapt. I think I've seen glimpses of that with the Pelicans FO. Here's hoping.
Posted on 4/7/15 at 7:21 am to VOR
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that some front offices have demonstrated over time their acumen consistently (hello San Antonio).
San Antonio was zagging when almost everyone else was zigging (targeting international players). I think that's kind of what 42 is hoping he's seeing with his CC Devile vs Kurt Cobain analogy. I'm still not sure how we get that 2nd star player, part of why I want Monty gone is because without a 2nd star we need a superior coach to give us an advantage. Of potential moves on the horizon getting Cousins in a few years is really the only one I can see. Can Twin Towers win it all in a perimeter oriented league?
This post was edited on 4/7/15 at 7:22 am
Posted on 4/7/15 at 7:29 am to TigerinATL
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I'm still not sure how we get that 2nd star player, part of why I want Monty gone is because without a 2nd star we need a superior coach to give us an advantage. Of potential moves on the horizon getting Cousins in a few years is really the only one I can see. Can Twin Towers win it all in a perimeter oriented league?
You kind of nailed it, imo. With AD, I don't think you necessarily need the "two superstar model". You just need to surround him with some very good players who know their roles. And you need the coach who knows how to use them. There's the rub. If Monty stays, we've got to hope he's learning and becoming more adaptable.
But I also think there's some chance we find help on the wing (if not a superstar, someone just under that level). It's not impossible.
Posted on 4/7/15 at 1:48 pm to VOR
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for most franchises, you've got to hope the stars align just right and that some crucial "guesses" pay off.
Absolutely. I think that's largely what interests me. How do you plan for the unknowable?
My big worry is the lack of flexibility they seem to have given themselves. That said, Demps turned flotsam into useful pieces w/ Cole/QPon. So, perhaps I could stand to have a little more faith.
Posted on 4/7/15 at 4:35 pm to corndeaux
It was pretty clear that trading 2 lottos for HOliday signaled a short timeframe for the Pels.
Posted on 4/7/15 at 4:46 pm to corndeaux
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My big worry is the lack of flexibility they seem to have given themselves. That said, Demps turned flotsam into useful pieces w/ Cole/QPon. So, perhaps I could stand to have a little more faith.
flexibility equals options...which is why the "national" pundits all generally hate the way this team was built. BUT at some point you say "here is our team"...now get better and show what you can do. there is not lack of flexibility with the roster if they want to cut bait. they can renounce or sign/trade asik, trade anderson, trade gordon, and reset again if they want
working around the margins is what the spurs do so well, and they are beatified for it. if QPon were having the same season for the spurs he's having here, all you would hear about is how brilliant they are for turning nothing into something
all we need is for somebody (one player) to step up. you would hope it would be holiday, but its got to happen now. you add a healthy holiday to this team, watch davis continue to grow, continue to encourage evans to pass, surround those guys with shooters, and add some perimeter D and this team is ready to roll.
Posted on 4/7/15 at 4:53 pm to cgrand
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all we need is for somebody (one player) to step up. you would hope it would be holiday, but its got to happen now. you add a healthy holiday to this team, watch davis continue to grow, continue to encourage evans to pass, surround those guys with shooters, and add some perimeter D and this team is ready to roll.
Well said
Posted on 4/9/15 at 8:31 pm to sma19
Not going to quote it all, but good convo. Applause.
Davis is awesome, can do anything. Jrue is solid, is very flexible. He is ultra-rare in that he is above averge for his position at so many things.
What this means is you have options for the meat in that sandwich. A wing is what I hbe been looking for, but another option is a big. Cousins, I think, is not an option. Valanciunas is. I think.
Timeframe. I think the timeframe is Davis' contract. They need some things in place when that kicks in, and they should be drafting once they can no longer get under the cap easily. I think the picks being traded is an effect of the timeframe of the contract, not on "performance."
Davis is awesome, can do anything. Jrue is solid, is very flexible. He is ultra-rare in that he is above averge for his position at so many things.
What this means is you have options for the meat in that sandwich. A wing is what I hbe been looking for, but another option is a big. Cousins, I think, is not an option. Valanciunas is. I think.
Timeframe. I think the timeframe is Davis' contract. They need some things in place when that kicks in, and they should be drafting once they can no longer get under the cap easily. I think the picks being traded is an effect of the timeframe of the contract, not on "performance."
Posted on 4/9/15 at 9:40 pm to cgrand
I don't think "hate" is the right word. SI had a nice piece today on the team's recent play and unheralded players stepping up, yet still asks objective, tough questions about the path forward.
LINK
But really, what you say is fair and reasonable. Those aforementioned tomatoes pop up yet again. I have a slightly lower opinion of the talent on hand and their ability to "step up." I also worry, still, about fit in the backcourt.
That aside, if they can add at least one other just quality wing this summer, I like this mix. Do I have concerns about the ultimate ceiling of that roster? Sure. But that doesn't particularly mean much of anything.
LINK
But really, what you say is fair and reasonable. Those aforementioned tomatoes pop up yet again. I have a slightly lower opinion of the talent on hand and their ability to "step up." I also worry, still, about fit in the backcourt.
That aside, if they can add at least one other just quality wing this summer, I like this mix. Do I have concerns about the ultimate ceiling of that roster? Sure. But that doesn't particularly mean much of anything.
Posted on 4/10/15 at 7:50 am to corndeaux
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I have a slightly lower opinion of the talent on hand and their ability to "step up.
This is why we need a coaching upgrade. Tony Parker is not even close to a top 10 talent in the league, yet he's been an MVP candidate because of fit and experience. I really see no reason why Jrue can't follow that path and be Tony Parker 5 years from now.
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I also worry, still, about fit in the backcourt.
I do too. Tyreke is lazy on defense and worthless off ball. If his role is starting SG rather than 6th man I don't think that's going to work long term unless he improves.
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if they can add at least one other just quality wing this summer, I like this mix
Holiday/Pondexter/3&D/AD/Asik That's about as potent and balanced a lineup as you can get. The only thing you're really missing is penetration and getting to the foul line, which could be a role for AD.
Posted on 4/11/15 at 6:52 am to TigerinATL
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This is why we need a coaching upgrade. Tony Parker is not even close to a top 10 talent in the league, yet he's been an MVP candidate because of fit and experience. I really see no reason why Jrue can't follow that path and be Tony Parker 5 years from now.
Woah. You lost me there. Parker has always been world class at getting to the rim and finishing. Pop changing the system (along with the league changing hand check rules) to accentuate Parkers elite skill certainly helped show off that talent. Holiday has never shown that type of ability on offense. His elite skill is his defense.
I thought Schwan's article on the next step forward was an objective look at their pieces around Davis.
Posted on 4/11/15 at 7:53 am to TigerinATL
Tyreke gives you that ability to penetrate. I agree he is best served as 6th man especially paired with a Ryno caliber big but I think he is a playoff caliber PG (Jrue can easily slide to SG).
I just think Reke is still young, talented, and he has proven EXTREMELY durable which is so very important for long NBA seasons. I think he should remain in the team's future.
I just think Reke is still young, talented, and he has proven EXTREMELY durable which is so very important for long NBA seasons. I think he should remain in the team's future.
Posted on 4/11/15 at 8:15 am to corndeaux
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Parker has always been world class at getting to the rim and finishing.
So has Tyreke, one trick ponies that have to be hidden on defense don't typically become MVP candidates. MVP candidates are usually freak 2 way players like AD and LeBron, or ridiculous scorers like Curry, Harden, and Melo. Parker's career averages are 16.9/5.9, not even close to MVPesque. 2 years ago is when they were talking about him for MVP right? He posted 20.3/7.6 that year, an improvement over the career numbers, but still pretty underwhelming for MVP numbers. The reason he was an MVP candidate was because he was the engine driving the Spurs dominance, not because he had the most talent of any player on the floor on any given night.
quote:
I thought Schwan's article on the next step forward was an objective look at their pieces around Davis.
I agree, it was a good article. Although it says he needs a wing man when it really says he needs a better PG. Just like you think we're going to have to develop our next SF, I think we'll have to develop our next PG, because the one we need is probably too good to be traded as a finished product. Make Tyreke smarter, probably not. Make Jrue more agressive going to the basket? I'm not sure that's possible either, especially with this injury.
This post was edited on 4/11/15 at 8:23 am
Posted on 4/11/15 at 8:17 am to TigerinATL
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So has Tyreke, one trick ponies that have to be hidden on defense don't typically become MVP candidates
Dude. You've lost the plot.
Posted on 4/11/15 at 8:25 am to corndeaux
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Dude. You've lost the plot.
No I haven't. I'm not saying Tyreke is as good as Parker, I'm saying I don't look at Parker and think "that's one of the most talented basketball players on the planet". He has seriously honed his skills, but he does not have freakish MVP level talent/physical ability.
This post was edited on 4/11/15 at 8:30 am
Posted on 4/11/15 at 9:11 am to TigerinATL
I've said this in detail a few times, but as a summary, I think something like Ryno+Evans for a wing is the kind of move we'd make by the deadline in 16.
However, it ia difficult to predict who that is inlarge part because we so not know who is available in trade. See: Holiday. Still, many a team needs a wing... Could be tough sledding.
Reflecting on this, the roster, and adding a little insight, there may another path. When making a roster to contend, you need the core, high dollar players locked up, then you fill in, churn to find the next guy (e.g. San Antonio). Davis is in, and he can play with anyone not a 4 for long stretches, deals well with broken plays. Holiday is good at many things, great at none offensively, but is a defender and a great teammate... fine not being the man. In other words, these two guys can play with a number of different players.
So, this leaves open a center. How about Jonas Valanciunas? I mentioned him before. Not a name, young vet, talented, not working out 100% in Tornonto, perhaps a controlled acquisition process as opposed to a free agency bonanza. Getting him may be more of an Asik + Ryno + pick thing (2016) as the core of a deal.
Teams are going all small, Dell may decide to go a more Memphis route wirh better talent... Or maybe better for the skeptics.
However, it ia difficult to predict who that is inlarge part because we so not know who is available in trade. See: Holiday. Still, many a team needs a wing... Could be tough sledding.
Reflecting on this, the roster, and adding a little insight, there may another path. When making a roster to contend, you need the core, high dollar players locked up, then you fill in, churn to find the next guy (e.g. San Antonio). Davis is in, and he can play with anyone not a 4 for long stretches, deals well with broken plays. Holiday is good at many things, great at none offensively, but is a defender and a great teammate... fine not being the man. In other words, these two guys can play with a number of different players.
So, this leaves open a center. How about Jonas Valanciunas? I mentioned him before. Not a name, young vet, talented, not working out 100% in Tornonto, perhaps a controlled acquisition process as opposed to a free agency bonanza. Getting him may be more of an Asik + Ryno + pick thing (2016) as the core of a deal.
Teams are going all small, Dell may decide to go a more Memphis route wirh better talent... Or maybe better for the skeptics.
Posted on 4/11/15 at 9:11 am to TigerinATL
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I don't look at Parker and think "that's one of the most talented basketball players on the planet"
That's fine. He's not a freakish athlete. That doesn't mean he hasn't put up MVP worthy seasons or that he isn't very, very talented. 2 years ago, for a 58 win team in 33 MPG, he put up 20/7.5 on 52% FG (58% TS). Parker is an incredibly talented offensive player. They've maximized his skills, but he's been the engine of a top notch Spurs offense for half a decade, at least. That doesn't happen without great talent.
Curry is clearly superior and clearly having a better season than Parker's ever had, but compare that PER 36 to Curry's this year and it's not as far off as you might think.
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Although it says he needs a wing man when it really says he needs a better PG. Just like you think we're going to have to develop our next SF, I think we'll have to develop our next PG, because the one we need is probably too good to be traded as a finished product. Make Tyreke smarter, probably not. Make Jrue more agressive going to the basket? I'm not sure that's possible either, especially with this injury
Yeah. I wasn't sure he if meant wing man as in wing player or as in a Robin.
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