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Message
re: So my daughter has received interest from an Ivy League school
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:08 pm to TheWalrus
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:08 pm to TheWalrus
quote:
My point was that the Ivies send mail to a bunch of people. I scored well on the ACT, but the rest of my application would have been dog shite. If this OP thinks that getting mail from Princeton equates to an acceptance, that's highly illogical. They send a bunch of mail to people who score well on standardized tests in order to attract applicants they can deny so they can boast about a low acceptance rate.
This x 100. My oldest kid aced his ACT and got mail from most of the top schools, he applied to all the ivys and a dozen or so in the top 20, he was accepted by none.
1
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:10 pm to asurob1
quote:
lol...I was a very unmotivated student. My chief interest at Florida State was how much beer I consume (I went when the legal age was 18!) and how much pussy I could destroy. Needless to say academically Florida State was happy to see me leave when I did.
I transferred from Alabama (majoring in Econ and Finance) to Appalachian State, where I majored in the rather useless Agroecology.
Needless to say, I did not take my studies seriously at either place. Luckily, I have an entrepreneurial bent, and my lack of academic achievement hasn't cost me. That, and dividends paid from the family holding company, will allow me to dick around for the rest of my life.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:22 pm to HempHead
quote:
I transferred from Alabama (majoring in Econ and Finance) to Appalachian State, where I majored in the rather useless Agroecology.
Needless to say, I did not take my studies seriously at either place. Luckily, I have an entrepreneurial bent, and my lack of academic achievement hasn't cost me. That, and dividends paid from the family holding company, will allow me to dick around for the rest of my life.
nice to have...I went military...finished the degree later in life...and cut my own way. Worked out well enough...not the route I'd recommend to anyone.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:43 pm to EA6B
quote:
My oldest kid aced his ACT and got mail from most of the top schools, he applied to all the ivys and a dozen or so in the top 20, he was accepted by none.
they get "US News points" for rejecting a high % of people, so this is a common story
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:54 pm to anc
quote:
She's going a Pre-Med route.
If it was something other than med, I'd say go for it. Future income from med school is uncertain.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:56 pm to SoulGlo
quote:
Future income from med school is uncertain.
Especially now. There are a few doctors in the family in the elder generation, but none currently in training (or with plans) to do so. None of the elders are particularly upset by this. There is the risk of incurring enormous debt with uncertain future income, with the way things are going.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 11:10 pm to HempHead
I read only the first couple of pages of this thread but I saw some posts about Ivy League schools being liberal indoctrination centers and I had to laugh.
This seems very typical of message boards, where everyone is an expert, regardless of actual experience or background.
Now I did not attend Princeton. I didn't even apply there, but I did apply to several other Ivy League schools, got into a couple, and ended up going to a very comparable school in terms of student demographics and ideology.
First of all, Princeton is the hardest school in America to get into. They are one of the smallest Ivy League schools, and they have a significant number of spots for legacies and development admits. What's a development admit? The child of an extremely wealthy individual. They give 5 million bucks and their kids get in with a 1850 SAT and a median GPA at Trinity/Chapin/Buckingham Brown & Nichols/etc. They also reserve spots for athletes in crew, field hockey, lacrosse, etc. Those spots are guaranteed to be filled and they have nothing to do with SAT scores or grades.
In other words, for non-legacies, non-minorities, and non-development admits, it is a total crapshoot. The guy who was valedictorian at my high school the year ahead of me had a perfect SAT score. He was wait listed at Princeton and got into Harvard and every other school he applied to. So if Princeton is sending information for you to apply, that is good. It doesn't mean a whole lot, but it is good. Don't read into it too much thousands of kids are getting the same info.
This seems very typical of message boards, where everyone is an expert, regardless of actual experience or background.
Now I did not attend Princeton. I didn't even apply there, but I did apply to several other Ivy League schools, got into a couple, and ended up going to a very comparable school in terms of student demographics and ideology.
First of all, Princeton is the hardest school in America to get into. They are one of the smallest Ivy League schools, and they have a significant number of spots for legacies and development admits. What's a development admit? The child of an extremely wealthy individual. They give 5 million bucks and their kids get in with a 1850 SAT and a median GPA at Trinity/Chapin/Buckingham Brown & Nichols/etc. They also reserve spots for athletes in crew, field hockey, lacrosse, etc. Those spots are guaranteed to be filled and they have nothing to do with SAT scores or grades.
In other words, for non-legacies, non-minorities, and non-development admits, it is a total crapshoot. The guy who was valedictorian at my high school the year ahead of me had a perfect SAT score. He was wait listed at Princeton and got into Harvard and every other school he applied to. So if Princeton is sending information for you to apply, that is good. It doesn't mean a whole lot, but it is good. Don't read into it too much thousands of kids are getting the same info.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 11:25 pm to Keys Open Doors
Let's say your child gets in. Congrats. That is fantastic. Based on what you wrote about financial aid, you have also avoided the hurdle facing many parents of smart kids. At 7k a year, your child's education is extremely manageable. I think it would be maniacal for someone to not seriously consider sending their kid to a top-ranked school, as long as the child is interested.
Prestigious colleges really do open doors to jobs, areas of the country, and a certain social strata that is damn hard to reach, including for smart kids who got a 3.8 at a top state school. Is that fair? Not necessarily, but it is 100% true.
One of the posts I saw early on was from a smart poster who said as long as your daughter majors in an applied science or STEM category, it would be worth it. Here is where I disagree 100 percent. If you major in a STEM field and make good grades, you'll be fine no matter where you go. The difference for Ivy League grads is what happens if you major in Art History, English, or some other liberal arts field. Wall Street is full of female Art history majors with degrees from Yale and Princeton. Why? I never quite got it, but for some reason, they prefer that to kids with finance degrees from SEC schools. Hell, some of the best kids at UNC were fighting over second tier jobs that weren't all that appealing to kids 8 miles away who were probably less qualified. It never made much sense to me.
It's not just Wall Street. The top magazines are the same way with their entry level hires if you replace the words finance major with journalism major.
Now some of it is due to political and familial ties, but it is definitely not 100 percent.
There are only two good reasons not to attend a top 10 college. Cost and lack of desire. If you're right about the financial aid amount, cost no longer counts as a good reason unless you guys are struggling to keep the lights on.
Prestigious colleges really do open doors to jobs, areas of the country, and a certain social strata that is damn hard to reach, including for smart kids who got a 3.8 at a top state school. Is that fair? Not necessarily, but it is 100% true.
One of the posts I saw early on was from a smart poster who said as long as your daughter majors in an applied science or STEM category, it would be worth it. Here is where I disagree 100 percent. If you major in a STEM field and make good grades, you'll be fine no matter where you go. The difference for Ivy League grads is what happens if you major in Art History, English, or some other liberal arts field. Wall Street is full of female Art history majors with degrees from Yale and Princeton. Why? I never quite got it, but for some reason, they prefer that to kids with finance degrees from SEC schools. Hell, some of the best kids at UNC were fighting over second tier jobs that weren't all that appealing to kids 8 miles away who were probably less qualified. It never made much sense to me.
It's not just Wall Street. The top magazines are the same way with their entry level hires if you replace the words finance major with journalism major.
Now some of it is due to political and familial ties, but it is definitely not 100 percent.
There are only two good reasons not to attend a top 10 college. Cost and lack of desire. If you're right about the financial aid amount, cost no longer counts as a good reason unless you guys are struggling to keep the lights on.
This post was edited on 4/21/14 at 11:40 pm
Posted on 4/21/14 at 11:37 pm to Keys Open Doors
The indoctrination angle is something perpetuated by people who have never spent one second in the classroom of the schools they criticize. Lectures are not like the bullshite that is passed on in Marine Todd/Albert Einstein chain emails where professors are militant atheists who talk down to students. Usually they are extremely focused, kind of dorky, and benign 55 year olds who are rambling on about an esoteric topic that can't be easily labeled conservative or liberal.
The student body is going to be more liberal than the Political Board. Obviously. Every college campus will be like that. I believe the Ole Miss student paper was the only one among major colleges in America to endorse Romney.
At most Ivy League schools, I would say 30 percent of the student body is Republican, 55 percent is Democrat, and 5 percent is far left. 10 percent don't give the tiniest of fricks.
People aren't shunned for their beliefs. It isn't like PCU or anything. Note: if we are talking about Oberlin, Wesleyan, or Bennington, ignore everything I've just said But those aren't the schools I'm talking about in my other posts. Brown is also a little like that, but I almost went there. I didn't think I saw that type of atmosphere with the people I hung out with, but they may not have been completely representative of the student body.
Very few people make huge changes in their ideology over 4 years of college, unless they had extremely naive and basic opinions in the first place. My friends and I left with much of the same views we came in with. I wouldn't worry about that type of stuff at all.
Fwiw, I am center-right, especially on foreign policy and taxation. Definitely not a bleeding heart. I never hid my opinions and never faced a second of backlash. I don't believe my experience was unique.
The student body is going to be more liberal than the Political Board. Obviously. Every college campus will be like that. I believe the Ole Miss student paper was the only one among major colleges in America to endorse Romney.
At most Ivy League schools, I would say 30 percent of the student body is Republican, 55 percent is Democrat, and 5 percent is far left. 10 percent don't give the tiniest of fricks.
People aren't shunned for their beliefs. It isn't like PCU or anything. Note: if we are talking about Oberlin, Wesleyan, or Bennington, ignore everything I've just said
But those aren't the schools I'm talking about in my other posts. Brown is also a little like that, but I almost went there. I didn't think I saw that type of atmosphere with the people I hung out with, but they may not have been completely representative of the student body. Very few people make huge changes in their ideology over 4 years of college, unless they had extremely naive and basic opinions in the first place. My friends and I left with much of the same views we came in with. I wouldn't worry about that type of stuff at all.
Fwiw, I am center-right, especially on foreign policy and taxation. Definitely not a bleeding heart. I never hid my opinions and never faced a second of backlash. I don't believe my experience was unique.
This post was edited on 4/21/14 at 11:41 pm
Posted on 4/21/14 at 11:41 pm to Keys Open Doors
This thread has been back and forth with the LULZ
Posted on 4/21/14 at 11:46 pm to Keys Open Doors
This is my final post. You said your daughter wanted to do pre-med. Fwiw, I believe 25 percent of every class starts that way and a little less than half finish as pre-meds.
All of my pre-med friends are doing their residencies right now, except two who are wrapping up med school. I will say that Ivy League schools don't provide a huge advantage if you want to do med school, unless you are a fricking rock star of a student with a 38+ MCAT, 3.75+ gpa, etc. if you are a regular good student, you will get into your home state's med school and the public med school of the state where you go to college. That's it in terms of guarantees.
If your kid is completely convinced they want to do medicine, I would temper my Ivy League endorsement in that instance. However, based on the financial aid awards you mentioned, I would still say go for it.
All of my pre-med friends are doing their residencies right now, except two who are wrapping up med school. I will say that Ivy League schools don't provide a huge advantage if you want to do med school, unless you are a fricking rock star of a student with a 38+ MCAT, 3.75+ gpa, etc. if you are a regular good student, you will get into your home state's med school and the public med school of the state where you go to college. That's it in terms of guarantees.
If your kid is completely convinced they want to do medicine, I would temper my Ivy League endorsement in that instance. However, based on the financial aid awards you mentioned, I would still say go for it.
This post was edited on 4/21/14 at 11:49 pm
Posted on 4/21/14 at 11:49 pm to SuperSaint
Did it veer into strange directions after page 2? It looked pretty typical up to that point.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 11:51 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
Did it veer into strange directions after page 2?
Not sure what page we began to provide personal banter, but it definitely got off track.
I blame myself.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 11:59 pm to HempHead
I wish I had seen this thread earlier, today was a day where I had nothing really going on, hence my posts about the Challenge and the most earthquake prone cities in the world
Posted on 4/22/14 at 12:10 am to Keys Open Doors
Good post, Keys.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 12:12 am to Keys Open Doors
quote:
One of the posts I saw early on was from a smart poster who said as long as your daughter majors in an applied science or STEM category, it would be worth it. Here is where I disagree 100 percent. If you major in a STEM field and make good grades, you'll be fine no matter where you go. The difference for Ivy League grads is what happens if you major in Art History, English, or some other liberal arts field. Wall Street is full of female Art history majors with degrees from Yale and Princeton. Why? I never quite got it, but for some reason, they prefer that to kids with finance degrees from SEC schools. Hell, some of the best kids at UNC were fighting over second tier jobs that weren't all that appealing to kids 8 miles away who were probably less qualified. It never made much sense to me.
It's not just Wall Street. The top magazines are the same way with their entry level hires if you replace the words finance major with journalism major.
Now some of it is due to political and familial ties, but it is definitely not 100 percent.
It makes perfect sense. They can teach a smart person to do finance. They can't teach a finance major with average intelligence to be any smarter. Wall Street also recruits fighter pilots and people with hard science degrees for the same reason.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 12:30 am to Jim Rockford
Jim, I agree with the general principle, but not when it is applied to a kid with a 3.4 in Art History from Duke or Columbia versus a 3.8 in finance from UNC or even Georgia or Syracuse.
Lynx, are you still doing management consulting?
Lynx, are you still doing management consulting?
Posted on 4/22/14 at 12:43 am to anc
quote:
Berry
My alma mater.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 1:40 am to Keys Open Doors
quote:
Lynx, are you still doing management consulting?
Yep, should be in it at least a couple more years before going the MBA route.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 1:58 am to lynxcat
Let me add in my two cents, take them for what they are worth.
What will your daughter do with her Princeton (or other prestigious) degree? You said she wants to be a doctor. A local doctor working in a practice? Or a doctor at a nationally well-known hospital? Getting into Princeton can help get you into another great medical program. BUT...
If she isn't interested in a high powered nationally prestigious job, she might want to think twice. She will be reading what other alums are doing and will get a little self-doubt from time to time: Am I wasting my Princeton degree? Susie Smith just cured another type of cancer and she was down the hall from me. I am stuck at this cruddy regional hospital. My life is a failure.
OK, a little extreme but it something they don't advertise on the brochures. A high caliber school means higher expectations and possible feelings of failure nagging at you (what might have been...)
What will your daughter do with her Princeton (or other prestigious) degree? You said she wants to be a doctor. A local doctor working in a practice? Or a doctor at a nationally well-known hospital? Getting into Princeton can help get you into another great medical program. BUT...
If she isn't interested in a high powered nationally prestigious job, she might want to think twice. She will be reading what other alums are doing and will get a little self-doubt from time to time: Am I wasting my Princeton degree? Susie Smith just cured another type of cancer and she was down the hall from me. I am stuck at this cruddy regional hospital. My life is a failure.
OK, a little extreme but it something they don't advertise on the brochures. A high caliber school means higher expectations and possible feelings of failure nagging at you (what might have been...)
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