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Message
re: Fwiw, Kiper's latest mock draft released today
Posted on 3/27/14 at 7:23 pm to fightingtigers98
Posted on 3/27/14 at 7:23 pm to fightingtigers98
quote:I get your point and agree with you in principle but he's definitely not a #1 wr
Harry Douglas 6' 183
Posted on 3/27/14 at 7:24 pm to Melvin
quote:
but he's definitely not a #1 wr
Not even close. He's a shitty 2
Posted on 3/27/14 at 7:25 pm to Melvin
quote:obviously, he had a good year because he was all they had for 3/4 of the year.
I get your point and agree with you in principle but he's definitely not a #1 wr
Posted on 3/27/14 at 7:39 pm to fightingtigers98
I think WR1 and WR2 and whatnot are poor descriptors.
There's bigger possession receivers. Sometimes these guys are also real fast but it's rare.
Then there are pure speed guys. Sometimes they have good hands and/or are big bodies.
Then there are guys that are good in space and are shifty.
Of course there's lots of overlap at times, but that's the main 3 types.
Honestly after cutting Moore and with Colston getting older we could use any type. Stills could fill a slot or burner role.
There's bigger possession receivers. Sometimes these guys are also real fast but it's rare.
Then there are pure speed guys. Sometimes they have good hands and/or are big bodies.
Then there are guys that are good in space and are shifty.
Of course there's lots of overlap at times, but that's the main 3 types.
Honestly after cutting Moore and with Colston getting older we could use any type. Stills could fill a slot or burner role.
Posted on 3/27/14 at 9:03 pm to fightingtigers98
quote:
he is not, he has been mid second the whole time
He was considered late 1st then Cooks and Beckham blew up at the combine and pushed him down to the 6th or 7th ranked WR.
Posted on 3/27/14 at 10:15 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
He was considered late 1st then Cooks and Beckham blew up at the combine and pushed him down to the 6th or 7th ranked WR.
he was always a early-mid 2nd. He dropped through out the season, due to Cooks, Beckham, Landry, Robinson, and even Davante Adams
Before the combine it was
1. Watkins
2. Evans
3. Lee
4. Benjamin
5. Beckham
6. Landry
7. Cooks
8. Robinson
9. Matthews
10. Richardson
Now it is
1. Watkins
2. Evans
3. Beckham
4. Cooks
5. Lee
6. Benjamin
7. Robinson
8. Matthews
9. Richardson
10. Landry
some have Adams ahead of matthews too
Posted on 3/27/14 at 11:07 pm to fightingtigers98
quote:
to say someone is not a #1 receiver because of size is ridiculous
Antonio Brown 5'10 186
TY Hilton 5'9 178
Kendall Wright 5'10 191
Golden Tate 5'10 202
Harry Douglas 6' 183
Steve Smith 5'9 185
Denarius Moore 6' 190
DJax 5'10 175
which one of these guys is a #1 WR? Antonio Brown has done it for 1 year.
steve smith was. Not anymore. They were exceptions to the rule
quote:
some guys who are a little bit bigger
Garcon 6' 210
Torrey Smith 6' 205
Cruz 6' 204
Cecil Shorts 6' 202
Garcon is. Not the others. He's thick though.
Posted on 3/27/14 at 11:39 pm to Lester Earl
quote:who would you say is a #1?
Lester Earl
that is an overused statement, give me a guy that can get open and catch the ball
Posted on 3/27/14 at 11:48 pm to fightingtigers98
There are WR1s and there are WR1s
Cecil Shorts, by definition, is a WR1 on the Jags. He's a WR3 on most teams.
True WR1s can take over games. Not Antonio Brown or Kendall Wright.. But guys like Calvin Johnson, Fitz, Josh Gordon, Dez, Roddy White, VJax, AJ80, Demaryius Thomas etc.
You're not getting one of those guys at our spot and the difference between a WR there and a WR in the 2nd round is minuscule. We just need a guy to compliment our system and he will be there in the 2nd. You might as well get an impact guy at another position in the first
Cecil Shorts, by definition, is a WR1 on the Jags. He's a WR3 on most teams.
True WR1s can take over games. Not Antonio Brown or Kendall Wright.. But guys like Calvin Johnson, Fitz, Josh Gordon, Dez, Roddy White, VJax, AJ80, Demaryius Thomas etc.
You're not getting one of those guys at our spot and the difference between a WR there and a WR in the 2nd round is minuscule. We just need a guy to compliment our system and he will be there in the 2nd. You might as well get an impact guy at another position in the first
Posted on 3/27/14 at 11:58 pm to fightingtigers98
well, list the best WRs in the the NFL. Most of them wont be 5'10"
Josh Gordon
Calvin johnson
AJ Green
Julio Jones
Demaryius Thomas
Andre Johnson
Alshon Jeffery
Brandon Marshall
Dez Bryant
Vincent Jackson
Larry Fitzgerald
True WR1. Like Gyno said, some guys are just there by default.
There are some guys that are smaller that are legitimately #1 WRs. But honestly, how many guys year to year consistently tear up the league at that size? The guys above do, for the most part.
Again, once you hit 27, you're going to find guys that are equal to the guys you can find in the 2nd round, barring someone slipping.
Josh Gordon
Calvin johnson
AJ Green
Julio Jones
Demaryius Thomas
Andre Johnson
Alshon Jeffery
Brandon Marshall
Dez Bryant
Vincent Jackson
Larry Fitzgerald
True WR1. Like Gyno said, some guys are just there by default.
There are some guys that are smaller that are legitimately #1 WRs. But honestly, how many guys year to year consistently tear up the league at that size? The guys above do, for the most part.
Again, once you hit 27, you're going to find guys that are equal to the guys you can find in the 2nd round, barring someone slipping.
Posted on 3/28/14 at 12:03 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
Calvin Johnson, Fitz, Josh Gordon, Dez, Roddy White, VJax, AJ80, Demaryius Thomas etc.
so you have to be an elite receiver to be a true #1? come on people. Colston must not be a #1 than, because he sure as hell isn't elite. Yea he was pretty damn good, but he wasn't elite. All those guys you listed are elite.
Posted on 3/28/14 at 12:21 am to fightingtigers98
There are like 20 "elite" WRs and TEs... So not really elite when most teams have one
The saints already have one.
Anyway, the point is you are getting the same value at WR in the 2nd round. It's not a bad thing. That 2nd round WR talent may be the sickest it's ever been.
The saints already have one.
Anyway, the point is you are getting the same value at WR in the 2nd round. It's not a bad thing. That 2nd round WR talent may be the sickest it's ever been.
Posted on 3/28/14 at 12:24 am to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
I feel like you're just limiting yourself further with that kind of pick for a first rounder.
well you'd have to think Rob Ryan would put Ford in good spots to succeed. He wouldn't be a three down guy but he would be there in obvious passing situations.
i'm kind of hoping we tighten up some on that run defense. You have to believe the Saints will be even tougher to throw against next year with the addition of a ball hawking safety in Byrd. So I'm thinking teams will want to attack us on the ground, it was kind of a weakness last year and it has been one the last few years really.
I think Hicks will get better and Jordan has been pretty solid the last few years stopping the run. Bunkley may or may not be here next year. I mean I guess there is a chance he gets cut after June 1st.
improvements could be made at ILB but I don't know if you want to use a 1st round pick on one.
Posted on 3/28/14 at 12:26 am to fightingtigers98
show me a 5'10 or 5'11" WR you'd take over any of those guys
Posted on 3/28/14 at 12:45 am to LooseCannon22282
I know someone is going to unexpectedly drop on draft day. I think that's who the Saints will take.
Mosely, Eric Ebron, one of the DBs... Or They could really like a guy like Marquis Lee or ODBjr and could snatch them up if they were to fall.
I think OL will be the wildcard here. The Martin kid from ND can play every OL position except for C. That wouldn't be a bad addition if he falls. Also, I know this board would flip it's shite, but I wouldn't be shocked to hear Cyrus Kouandijo's name called. It depends on the Saints big board, obviously. If you're drafting for depth it's not a terrible place to start.
Mosely, Eric Ebron, one of the DBs... Or They could really like a guy like Marquis Lee or ODBjr and could snatch them up if they were to fall.
I think OL will be the wildcard here. The Martin kid from ND can play every OL position except for C. That wouldn't be a bad addition if he falls. Also, I know this board would flip it's shite, but I wouldn't be shocked to hear Cyrus Kouandijo's name called. It depends on the Saints big board, obviously. If you're drafting for depth it's not a terrible place to start.
Posted on 3/28/14 at 1:04 am to fightingtigers98
quote:
so you have to be an elite receiver to be a true #1? come on people. Colston must not be a #1 than, because he sure as hell isn't elite. Yea he was pretty damn good, but he wasn't elite. All those guys you listed are elite.
Exactly. To me a WR #1 is a guy who can run any WR route effectively. Colston in his prime could run short routes, WR screens, down the middle, along the sidelines, jump ball in the end zone, streaks down the field, etc. Elite players can run all these routes at a high level. Colston was never there but could at least competently run all these routes. At his age he can't, which is why we have no true #1 WR.
Having said that, I don't see who we can get at 27 that can do that.
Posted on 3/28/14 at 1:24 am to higgsBoson
No one said Colston wasn't a 1 in his prime. Brees helps a lot of well. Which is why a guy like Donte Moncrief in the 2nd would be great. With his physical tools, Brees could put him in the pro bowl every season. He has game changing potential
Posted on 3/28/14 at 1:53 am to Lester Earl
let me ask you this question than, would you take Antonio Brown. Because that is who i see Beckham as
However i do not believe Cooks or Beckham will be there at 27, which makes it more likely we end up with
Matthews, Moncrief, Robinson, etc
and take a guy like Dri Archer in the 5th. He can play both WR&RB and is a beast in the return game
However i do not believe Cooks or Beckham will be there at 27, which makes it more likely we end up with
Matthews, Moncrief, Robinson, etc
and take a guy like Dri Archer in the 5th. He can play both WR&RB and is a beast in the return game
Posted on 3/28/14 at 6:52 am to fightingtigers98
quote:
so you have to be an elite receiver to be a true #1
Are we arguing about the ambiguity of WR1 and you bring up "elite"?
JM2C:
Not all teams have a WR1 when used in scouting terms, sometimes it's WR by Committee such as we have had the last 7 years. WR1 in depth chart terms doesn't really mean anything.
Posted on 3/28/14 at 7:26 am to Lester Earl
DeSean Jackson and Steve Smith over Vincent Jackson and at least up there with some of the others.
But yeah it's rare for a sub 6 ft. guy to be that good.
I still stand by my point that we could use any type of WR help, and same as pass rusher or anything else if the Saints have one as the clear BPA on their board at 27 they should take him.
Honestly the only thing that is a drop dead need is center if they aren't too sold on Lelito (which Payton sounded like he wasn't but has hope for him). Every other spot we have at least known commodities unless you count the third receiver as a starter.
But yeah it's rare for a sub 6 ft. guy to be that good.
I still stand by my point that we could use any type of WR help, and same as pass rusher or anything else if the Saints have one as the clear BPA on their board at 27 they should take him.
Honestly the only thing that is a drop dead need is center if they aren't too sold on Lelito (which Payton sounded like he wasn't but has hope for him). Every other spot we have at least known commodities unless you count the third receiver as a starter.
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