re: Who is to blame for this alleged disappearance of the middle class?

quote:

---

But I do think that financial institutions are probably part of the problem as well. The practice of extending credit to people that aren't really credit worthy creates a cycle of "survival" style cost of living with the constant high interest debt payments that need to be made just to keep current. Let's face it, most college students don't know how to manage money well.

---

This.
As a stupid society, we spend too much damn money on stupid shite. I only partially blame the financial institutions.

Every person I know that claims to be broke and not able to make enough money still has a decent house, new car, and all of the toys that everyone thinks of as a right these days. And most of all, they eat out or pick up food and rarely cook.
Stupid lazy fooks!

quote:

---

I don't know for sure but I'm gonna guess they don't lines of credit from banks.

---

quote:

---

Well the banks have a lot of political clout but they're certainly not the government.

---

Why are you two using banks to refute my position? I know YOU posited a bank component. MY contention rejects that as a reason for the situation.

No, not ENTIRELY. Just, not the primary cause

quote:

---

I'm not refuting your position.

---

Well, DAMN!!

Way to make it plain that I'm an illiterate a-hole!

Sorry. I <3 you BHP. No homo. I promise. I don't even watch Disney.

quote:

---

The 2008 subprime collapse was the fault of Congress, The regulators, The banks, hundreds of smaller lenders, thousands of greedy individual loan officers, thousands of lax underwriters, thousands of crooked property appraisers, and consumers who were greedy or clueless and 1000 other things.

The only constant was the GREED across every level, and the willingness at EVERY SINGLE LEVEL to look the other way. It was a nation-wide failure across all classes, from the top down.

The blame can not be confined solely to government or solely to idiot consumers living above their means.

---

We finally agree on something

And if we're going to depend on the idiots among us to determine our fate then we have failed as a society.

quote:

---

Well to be fair you probably don't know any really poor people. Just people who live check to check. There are poor people out there.

---

Our poor people get free food and housing and cell phones. Poor has a different definition here than it does elsewhere.

quote:

---

Our poor people get free food and housing and cell phones. Poor has a different definition here than it does elsewhere.

---

This isn't the case for everyone. Go visit some poor people in rural MS or shite even here in Ingleside, TX. There are some really poor MFers out there. I know everyone likes to pretend that every one of them has a GS4 and a 2011 5 series but it just isn't true.

it's tough to get people to agree on a definition where the bottom of the middle class is.

another complicating thing is that what the underclass has in income is smaller than what they get to consume, thanks to the safety net. in many ways what the lower class consumes is fairly similar to what the lower-middle class consumes. this is why, to me, the "middle class" looks huge.

the class that is visible below this includes the homeless or other true dysfunctionals that you sometimes see begging. but that's not a great number of people in reality. HUD says the number of homeless is like 600 thousand- a fraction of 1% of the US population. i know there are more "poor" than that, but i don't believe that the middle class is anything but huge, nor do i believe it is shrinking in any meaningful way, nor do i believe that the standard of living of those within it is declining

eta: forgot the main point, that i do actually think we're closer to two-tier, but from a different point of view than the op suggests

What we define as 'poor' now is so ludicrous.

Poor people used to starve, now they eat so much they are obese.

Virtually every American has a TV in their home (and on average there are more TV's in homes than people).

in 1959 the average worker would have to work over 120 hours to buy a washer and dryer. Today it is 20.

Point being, we keep moving the yardsticks and lose perspective. We insult the historical poor by comparing them to the a large portion of what we consider modern day 'poor'.

quote:

---

Or, is the middle CLIMBING to the high?

---

That's what I see 90% of the time someone I know or know of changes "classes." The ones I know of who dropped, did so because they took a business risk and lost. In the end though, they'll probably still end up ahead of most as they keep pushing.