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re: Who is to blame for this alleged disappearance of the middle class?
Posted on 1/29/14 at 6:40 pm to Powerman
Posted on 1/29/14 at 6:40 pm to Powerman
quote:
But I do think that financial institutions are probably part of the problem as well. The practice of extending credit to people that aren't really credit worthy creates a cycle of "survival" style cost of living with the constant high interest debt payments that need to be made just to keep current. Let's face it, most college students don't know how to manage money well. Yet any of them can get a credit card as a freshman despite not having any proof of being credit worthy. A lot of these same people get burdened with student loan payments and the like. Then you have a class of educated people (although perhaps not the most financially savvy) that are stuck in a cycle of debt that they can never come out from unless they can achieve a high income to conquer that debt.
I agree with this. Just a quick general comment on getting into debt. I believe that for the most part debt accumulation is due to easy access to credit, undisciplined borrowers and people with a psychological addiction to spending. I don't know how you break out of this debt accumulation behavior. I've seen many of my friends go into severe financial trouble simply because they have to be the cool guy with the new phone, fancy jeans, buying everybody drinks at the bar, new car, fast boat, etc.
quote:
People blame the government for the financial collapse all the time.
I think that is fair accusation if you are talking about the 2008 financial crisis. If the government is going to back loans (remove risk) banks will get aggressive and predatory to loan money. It's called moral hazard. Take the risk off the tax payer and put it back on the bank and this problem of moral hazard goes away.
1
Posted on 1/29/14 at 6:44 pm to Placebeaux
quote:
Corporate America.
Has increased my financial worth thanks to investments and most of them running their businesses for a profit. That's going to enrich more than it harms. Unless one is a clueless dolt who either blows their money on TV, Cars and depreciating garbage, almost anyone can improve their station in life.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 6:47 pm to Powerman
quote:
Who is to blame for this alleged disappearance of the middle class?
the Federal Reserve Bank
Posted on 1/29/14 at 6:49 pm to WikiTiger
quote:
the Federal Reserve Bank
Yes
Posted on 1/29/14 at 6:55 pm to Powerman
quote:the other side, clearly!
Who is to blame
Posted on 1/29/14 at 6:58 pm to Powerman
the human race and technology
we've advanced so far that luxury goods are now so cheap and accessible that the poor and rich enjoy the same goods
we're a victim of our own success, as this has eroded the true distinctions between the groups and the lower/middle classes have started to believe that luxury goods are necessities...which is where we run into problems with "the middle class"
the median income has hovered around $45-50k for a household for a good while now. that's seen as poor by many in the upper-middle class. that's also not far removed from the "welfare queen" level of "poverty"
we've advanced so far that luxury goods are now so cheap and accessible that the poor and rich enjoy the same goods
we're a victim of our own success, as this has eroded the true distinctions between the groups and the lower/middle classes have started to believe that luxury goods are necessities...which is where we run into problems with "the middle class"
the median income has hovered around $45-50k for a household for a good while now. that's seen as poor by many in the upper-middle class. that's also not far removed from the "welfare queen" level of "poverty"
Posted on 1/29/14 at 7:16 pm to Powerman
quote:Yes.
There are poor people out there.
There are some desperately poor folks out there. Mental health, addiction, poor decisions drive that demographic.
No question. I do know some of those. The real tragedy is when kids are involved. So sad.
==============
Regarding the OP: Who is to blame for this alleged disappearance of the middle class?
The middle class is nowhere near disappearing. Alleged or otherwise. If anything, it's growing. However, sustained movement from middle to upper class (depending on the definition), may be declining. Predominant reason for that is obviously taxation.
Here's the problem. Financial classes are an entirely arbitrary assignment. e.g., is upper class the Top10%, Top5%, Top1%, Top 0.1% of income earners? Is assignment based on wealth accumulation? If so, what is the measure?
All too often nowadays, assignments to Impoverished class, middle class, wealthy, etc. are not based on lifestyle comparisons with past generations in those classes, but rather based on the moving goal posts of what is perceived as deserved.
The only way one concludes our middle class is shrinking, is thru comparatives of what the middle class does not possess relative to the ultraaffluent. Appropriate analysis would relate possessions of the current middle class with those of past eras.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 8:03 pm to NC_Tigah
Trickle down economics.
Diminishing of Labor unions.
Diminishing of Labor unions.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 8:11 pm to Powerman
Academia and the idea that every person needs to go to college. Americans getting too good to learn a trade but not too good to accept government handouts. Poor leadership...baby boomers.
This post was edited on 1/29/14 at 8:14 pm
Posted on 1/29/14 at 8:16 pm to beaverfever
quote:
Academia and the idea that every person needs to go to college. Americans getting too good to learn a trade but not too good to accept government handouts. Poor leadership...baby boomers.
Yep. They need a serious overhaul of our education system to focus on having fewer colleges and promoting more people to learn crafts starting in high school.
There are many great jobs in industry right now for people who have a skill.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 8:30 pm to notiger1997
18 year old kids who don't know how to do anything. Hell 23 year old college graduates who don't know how to do anything. The generation that raised that generation then asks where things went wrong.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 8:47 pm to Powerman
I'm not going to read the other responses before giving my opinion so forgive me if I cover things that have been talked about.
First and foremost is the obliteration of manufacturing in the United States. These were good jobs in which people without secondary education could make a solid living. Unions destroyed manufacturing in the US and it was taken elsewhere.
The second is the internet. Small retail businesses cannot compete with the likes of Amazon.
The third is in the same vein. The consolidation of retail into corporate entities such as Target and Wal Mart decimated small business as well.
The fourth is the lack of people willing to learn a trade, even though these trades are lucrative once the trade is learned. Plumbers, electricians and the like make a killing but those that seek out these avenues are reduced because they require starting at the bottom and learning their craft before the money gets great.
First and foremost is the obliteration of manufacturing in the United States. These were good jobs in which people without secondary education could make a solid living. Unions destroyed manufacturing in the US and it was taken elsewhere.
The second is the internet. Small retail businesses cannot compete with the likes of Amazon.
The third is in the same vein. The consolidation of retail into corporate entities such as Target and Wal Mart decimated small business as well.
The fourth is the lack of people willing to learn a trade, even though these trades are lucrative once the trade is learned. Plumbers, electricians and the like make a killing but those that seek out these avenues are reduced because they require starting at the bottom and learning their craft before the money gets great.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 8:48 pm to Powerman
quote:
Who is to blame for this alleged disappearance of the middle class?
Obama
Posted on 1/29/14 at 8:52 pm to constant cough
Let me add, that medical jobs are a gigantic source of middle class jobs.
Possibly the biggest in 2014.
These are getting nut punched by Obamacare already and it will diminish the middle class even more catastrophically.
Possibly the biggest in 2014.
These are getting nut punched by Obamacare already and it will diminish the middle class even more catastrophically.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 8:53 pm to sugar71
quote:
Trickle down economics.
Diminishing of Labor unions.
You never disappoint.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 8:54 pm to notiger1997
quote:
There are many great jobs in industry right now for people who have a skill.
If you can use a welding torch or are willing to put the time in to be an apprentice to learn how to be a pipe fitter amd can show up on time you can make 60K minimum right off the bat in S LA right now.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 8:57 pm to sugar71
quote:
Trickle down economics.
Because trickle up poverty is so much better.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 8:58 pm to sugar71
quote:Not evident
Trickle down economics.
quote:Not evident.
Diminishing of Labor unions
Facts are stubborn things, sugar.
Inflation adjusted middle class income is relatively unchanged or slightly increasing over time.
What does that say about your post?
Posted on 1/29/14 at 8:59 pm to NC_Tigah
i forgot to add to my argument that the "Technology gap" will continue to widen the economic gap
Posted on 1/29/14 at 9:03 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
If you can use a welding torch or are willing to put the time in to be an apprentice to learn how to be a pipe fitter amd can show up on time you can make 60K minimum right off the bat in S LA right now.
No shite. It is boom town in Texas and La right now.
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