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Why does it seem like liberalism always wins in the end?
Posted on 1/12/14 at 12:38 am
Posted on 1/12/14 at 12:38 am
If you study the history of this country, all momentous points were when great changed happened:
It was "liberals" that wanted independence from Britain.
It was "liberals" who abolished the institution of slavery.
New deal, civil rights, worker rights, etc.
Is history basically not proof that liberalism always wins? What great conservative causes have won?
It was "liberals" that wanted independence from Britain.
It was "liberals" who abolished the institution of slavery.
New deal, civil rights, worker rights, etc.
Is history basically not proof that liberalism always wins? What great conservative causes have won?
Posted on 1/12/14 at 12:44 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
I think you're applying a liberal definition to what these groups are. Well done.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 12:50 am to C
Conservatism: Conservatism as a political and social philosophy promotes retaining traditional social institutions.
Liberalism:
Liberalism:
Posted on 1/12/14 at 12:51 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
C'mon, HHM, you know classical liberalism and today's Liberalism have next to nothing in common, right?
Classical liberals are for the supremacy of the individual and a very limited government. Today's Liberals abhor those principles.
Classical liberals are for the supremacy of the individual and a very limited government. Today's Liberals abhor those principles.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 1:42 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Because conservative = status quo by definition. If things change under a conservative, it's moving back. Luckily they lose more times than not at attempting to do so.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:11 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
your trolling shtick is hella old
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:23 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
liberal is the gas pedal, conservative is the brake
full on gas and you will lose control in turns and hit walls...conservatives just try to slow down during risky situations......when the lights green and there's no traffic....conservatives don't really try to stop anything...they may just say...make sure your seat belts fastened.
full on gas and you will lose control in turns and hit walls...conservatives just try to slow down during risky situations......when the lights green and there's no traffic....conservatives don't really try to stop anything...they may just say...make sure your seat belts fastened.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:36 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
or put a different way, why is modern day liberalism worldwide more closely associated with communism and unbridled socialism and conservatism in the U S identifies with Freedom and Liberty. Liberalism identifies with, no worships the State. "Why" does that win? Good question.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:45 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:
Because conservative = status quo by definition.
That's not what conservatism is. At least on the fiscal side of things.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:48 am to Sentrius
quote:Vegas Bengal presents an incredibly simplistic (and wrong) definition of what conservatism and liberalism is.
That's not what conservatism is. At least on the fiscal side of things.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:54 am to Iona Fan Man
Change will always eventually win out over the status quo but which change will it be? Conservative voices are crucial in vetting and discarding harebrained ideas.
And our modern American political glossary doesn't hold up well under examination. The real divide lies between urban and rural lifestyles, values and individual economic realities.
And our modern American political glossary doesn't hold up well under examination. The real divide lies between urban and rural lifestyles, values and individual economic realities.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:54 am to stuntman
quote:
C'mon, HHM, you know classical liberalism and today's Liberalism have next to nothing in common, right?
Classical liberals are for the supremacy of the individual and a very limited government. Today's Liberals abhor those principles.
Correct.
Liberals have pretty much destroyed the meaning of the word liberal and molded it into its present meaning today.
Were it still in use, I would be a classical liberal but instead, I'm a libertarian in today's time.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 5:59 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Conservatives seem to win more often on different issues, usually Constitutional and fiscal ones. For example: Gun control. Conservatives win that battle a lot.
The examples you used for the most part are more social issues, which most of the time liberals are on the right side of. Liberals lose when it comes to business policy and fiscal issues.
This is historically. The political climate today has radically changed what each side stands for compared to in the past. We have not seen it long enough to be able to tell who will win more in the future. It's very likely the left wing extremism we see today could be too much, and push many people the opposite direction to the far right for awhile. As least for any informed voter...the leeches will keep voting D with their hand out for a free lunch.
The examples you used for the most part are more social issues, which most of the time liberals are on the right side of. Liberals lose when it comes to business policy and fiscal issues.
This is historically. The political climate today has radically changed what each side stands for compared to in the past. We have not seen it long enough to be able to tell who will win more in the future. It's very likely the left wing extremism we see today could be too much, and push many people the opposite direction to the far right for awhile. As least for any informed voter...the leeches will keep voting D with their hand out for a free lunch.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 6:27 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Because its more humane, wiser and Christian.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 6:39 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
It was "liberals" who abolished the institution of slavery.
Nope it was Christians in England and America that worked diligently to abolish slavery, the Brits just did it sooner than us.
ETA look up the name William Wilberforce, along with watching the movie Amazing Grace, it might teach you a small bit about the history involved to abolition efforts. America at a certain point joined England in stopping the slave trade on the high seas, and it was well before the civil war when you consider the era.
This post was edited on 1/12/14 at 8:16 am
Posted on 1/12/14 at 7:21 am to Iona Fan Man
quote:
liberal is the gas pedal, conservative is the brake
I think our gas pedal is stuck and the brakes are worn out.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 7:46 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
It was "liberals" that wanted independence from Britain.
Since when did "change" apply only to liberals? "Progressiveism", yes. "Change, no".
And it was radicals that wanted independence from Britain, not "liberals". You know why? Cause the British government was intervening too much into their lives...sound familiar...
Guess what happened once we gained independence (an act of radicalism)? We created a government. All that signing and deliberating at the beginning - an act of reactionism.
I can keep going.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 7:47 am to Vegas Bengal
Conservatives want to end the status quo; radically. They want big change. They want to end the generational dependency on the welfare state.
Conservatives believe that the more self sufficient the populace is, the better off the country is.
Conservatives actually believe that taxing a dollar from someone, sending it to Washington, having it siphoned off at every level of bureaucracy and then sending it back down to his neighbor (deserving or not) to be siphoned off some more on the way down and now by the state governments too sometimes, is a terribly inefficient way to do...anything, but that is the system that Democrats, especially Liberals wholeheartedly endorse and worship.
And if you want to criticize Conservatives on social issues; for defending rights of the unborn, but not snail darter rights and tree rights,ok. And if you want to criticize Conservatives because they promote traditional families (horrors), fine.
There is no good defense of the increasing dependency on government and the advocacy thereof by liberals, which brings us back to the original point, why does this side win?
Conservatives believe that the more self sufficient the populace is, the better off the country is.
Conservatives actually believe that taxing a dollar from someone, sending it to Washington, having it siphoned off at every level of bureaucracy and then sending it back down to his neighbor (deserving or not) to be siphoned off some more on the way down and now by the state governments too sometimes, is a terribly inefficient way to do...anything, but that is the system that Democrats, especially Liberals wholeheartedly endorse and worship.
And if you want to criticize Conservatives on social issues; for defending rights of the unborn, but not snail darter rights and tree rights,ok. And if you want to criticize Conservatives because they promote traditional families (horrors), fine.
There is no good defense of the increasing dependency on government and the advocacy thereof by liberals, which brings us back to the original point, why does this side win?
Posted on 1/12/14 at 8:13 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:
If things change under a conservative, it's moving back.
That would be reactionary, by definition.
Posted on 1/12/14 at 8:18 am to CarrolltonTiger
quote:
That would be reactionary, by definition.
correct, and progressives get the benefit that the word progress is associated with "getting better". It really means moving toward.
The question should be, toward what? Is what you are moving toward really better than where you are, or where your were?
It is possible to progress to a worse situation, and reaction to a better one.
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