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re: Pretty tough to argue against Manning being the GOAT at this point
Posted on 9/24/13 at 1:38 am to benhamin5555
Posted on 9/24/13 at 1:38 am to benhamin5555
quote:
Best case scenario he'll be an above average Donovan McNabb/ Carson Palmer level QB.
I think that's short selling him. He's a McNair/Big Ben combo who can make some tough throws. Get him one Big receiver-Julio,AJ,Megatron..or a guy like Jimmy Graham...MVP?
0
Posted on 9/24/13 at 1:40 am to benhamin5555
quote:
Best case scenario he'll be an above average Donovan McNabb/ Carson Palmer level QB.
Worse case scenario, he'll be in the position Mark Sanchez is in a couple of years.
Cam does not have the makings of an elite NFL QB.
Cam has every tool needed to succeed Peyton as the best of his generation. The only thing that can hold him back is coaching and that should be fixed this year or next.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 1:48 am to SabiDojo
Are you guys trolling? Those colts defenses WERE horrible for most of the years he spent there. Do you not remember all the times peyton had to slow down his pace just so his defense wouldn't have a chance to frick it up and lose late in the game? I said they had one decent year(by their standards) yet they were still in the bottom half of the league in most defensive rankings. They came through for about 6 games late in the season and throughout the playoffs in 2006. That was about it. Bob sanders and dwight freeney alone don't make a good defense. They gave up a lot of points, putting a ton of pressure on the offense.
Brady, however, was carried by his defenses early on. The rules were catered more to that side of the ball during those years, which gave the colts' receivers problems when physical corners like Ty law could basically push them down before they got into their routes. It's one of he main reasons the patriots had so much early success against the colts.
Brady, however, was carried by his defenses early on. The rules were catered more to that side of the ball during those years, which gave the colts' receivers problems when physical corners like Ty law could basically push them down before they got into their routes. It's one of he main reasons the patriots had so much early success against the colts.
This post was edited on 9/24/13 at 1:54 am
Posted on 9/24/13 at 5:10 am to benhamin5555
It's tough to argue the GOAT QB because unlike baseball and basketball, everyone in football is so dependent on the contributions of at least 21 other guys in order to be successful.
There are some advanced metrics out there that are gallant attempts at honing in on what the QB does independent of the rest of his team, but still at the end of the day, he has to have someone design his offense, block for him, run the ball, catch his passes, etc. And that's not even mentioning his defense and special teams giving him the ball back in good positions or the quality of defenses he's facing or the rules environment in which he's playing. And speaking of environment, WHERE and WHEN he's playing most of his games has to be a factor.
There are some advanced metrics out there that are gallant attempts at honing in on what the QB does independent of the rest of his team, but still at the end of the day, he has to have someone design his offense, block for him, run the ball, catch his passes, etc. And that's not even mentioning his defense and special teams giving him the ball back in good positions or the quality of defenses he's facing or the rules environment in which he's playing. And speaking of environment, WHERE and WHEN he's playing most of his games has to be a factor.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 6:27 am to benhamin5555
Had he gone to LSU, no doubt this thread would have crowned him the GOAT long ago.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 6:39 am to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
VerlanderBEAST
Finally I find you. I haven't seen you campaigning for Gardner to win Big X player of the year lately. What up?
Posted on 9/24/13 at 6:44 am to LasVegasBandit
quote:
My top 5 QB's of all time: Joe Montana Tom Brady Peyton Manning John Elway Drew Brees
Nice list. But...
Elway
Montana
Manning
Brady
Brees/Favre
Posted on 9/24/13 at 6:58 am to benhamin5555
Greatest regular season QB I'll agree with. However, his playoff failures drop him to somewhere around 4-5 all time.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 7:06 am to RandySavage
Yep. Most people just look at stats an fail to factor in playoff performances. Who cares if he only has one Super Bowl ring? That's not what you should be looking at. Look at his playoff record. He's 9-11 in the playoffs, with 8 of those losses being one and dones.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 7:31 am to DURANTULA
quote:
People really think Brees has a legit shot at being the GOAT? Really? The guy who was such a bust that his team drafted a quarterback with the top pick just to replace his arse and then ultimately cut him? Yeah that guy is the GOAT.
Dude is a volume guy plain and simple. The AI of quarterbacks except he goes to practice and has a cute kid. Give me a break Saintards.
I dont think Brees will go down as a top 5 QB and certainly not the greatest of all time, but we've already eviscerated your 'arguments' against him being a 'volume' stat padder..do you really want to get embarrassed again? We have the accuracy and downfield stats on hand to humiliate you if need be
Posted on 9/24/13 at 7:49 am to REG861
Montana was just as surgical, if not more.
He also owns all the hardware. He played in a better era against better defenses.
Montana > Manning
He also owns all the hardware. He played in a better era against better defenses.
Montana > Manning
Posted on 9/24/13 at 7:53 am to RollTide1987
Sample size.
Also, his qb stats in the playoffs (not his team stats) are on par with and even better than some guys with more rings.
But of course he misplayed a deep pass thrown by Flacco...
Also, his qb stats in the playoffs (not his team stats) are on par with and even better than some guys with more rings.
But of course he misplayed a deep pass thrown by Flacco...
Posted on 9/24/13 at 7:54 am to Preys on Gumps
I agree. Put late-80s Montana in the 2013 version of the NFL and he'd be just as impressive as Brees or Manning or whatever other top flight QB you want to bring up.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 7:54 am to LanierSpots
quote:
I thought the consensus was championships.
We need guidelines.
If the consensus is championships then the top four are:
1. Joe Montana (4 rings)
2. Terry Bradshaw (4 rings)
3. Tom Brady (3 rings)
4. John Elway (2 rings)
With Tom Brady and John Elway both having other appearances in the SB where they lost.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 7:57 am to REG861
Elway is overrated.
Best since 1975 in order:
Montana
Manning
Marino
Brees
Young
Brady
Favre
Moon
Kelly
Elway
Rodgers
Warner
Roethlisberger
Rivers
Aikman
Romo
Ryan
Best since 1975 in order:
Montana
Manning
Marino
Brees
Young
Brady
Favre
Moon
Kelly
Elway
Rodgers
Warner
Roethlisberger
Rivers
Aikman
Romo
Ryan
Posted on 9/24/13 at 7:58 am to LSUnowhas2
I guess Troy Aikman > Peyton
Posted on 9/24/13 at 7:59 am to Sophandros
quote:
But of course he misplayed a deep pass thrown by Flacco...
Like it or not, an NFL QB's legacy is decided by their performance in the playoffs. Manning's legacy is already established because he does have that Super Bowl ring. But a QB like Dan Marino, no doubt one of the best who ever played the game, will not be remembered as often as some of the other all-time greats because of his failure to win a Super Bowl.
Does that make him a worse QB than Trent Dilfer? No. But it does hurt his argument for GOAT.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 8:05 am to LSUnowhas2
to me, brady is montana light. montana is #1, and brady probably has the strongest argument for 2nd all time. manning is a better version of dan marino. i agree that manning is the best regular season qb of all time, but you have to factor in playoff success/failure.
and i do think that aaron rodgers has a shot to finish in the top 2 of all time qb's based on his current trajectory. i don't think he can top montana, but he can finish above brady. the guy is a machine, i don't see any weakness in his game. given the choice of brees or rodgers, id take rodgers.
and i do think that aaron rodgers has a shot to finish in the top 2 of all time qb's based on his current trajectory. i don't think he can top montana, but he can finish above brady. the guy is a machine, i don't see any weakness in his game. given the choice of brees or rodgers, id take rodgers.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 8:05 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Like it or not, an NFL QB's legacy is decided by their performance in the playoffs
Only by lazy thinkers like you.
quote:
But a QB like Dan Marino, no doubt one of the best who ever played the game, will not be remembered as often as some of the other all-time greats because of his failure to win a Super Bowl.
Again, this holds true only if you are a lazy thinker who holds a team accomplishment above a player's production when judging an individual's accomplishment.
Posted on 9/24/13 at 8:07 am to theunknownknight
Did you just list Matt Ryan in the top 20 quarterbacks of the last 40 years?
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