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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 4/2/13 at 2:40 pm to ColaTiger
Posted on 4/2/13 at 2:40 pm to ColaTiger
I think the Children of the Forest did not create the Others. I think the Others are a completely different race of beings from the North. However, I think the Children may have done something that inadvertently caused the Others to begin roaming south of their original habitat and start attacking the kingdoms of men. That's why they helped to supply the Night's Watch with daggers, they felt guilty for being partially responsible.
That would help to explain why the zombies don't approach the children.
Why The Others are back now, I'm not sure. I think they were just biding their time until the Night's Watch was weak and the dragons were all dead.
That would help to explain why the zombies don't approach the children.
Why The Others are back now, I'm not sure. I think they were just biding their time until the Night's Watch was weak and the dragons were all dead.
1
Posted on 4/2/13 at 2:49 pm to kingbob
They're almost certainly tied in to the out of sync seasons. Martin has said that was caused by a catastrophic event in the distant past that will be explained. Maybe the 3EC has seen what happened?
This post was edited on 4/2/13 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 4/2/13 at 3:29 pm to shinerfan
I've always wondered... Do the other continents experience fricked up seasonal changes or is that just a westeros thing?
Posted on 4/2/13 at 3:33 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
I've always wondered... Do the other continents experience fricked up seasonal changes or is that just a westeros thing?
I've kind of wondered this as well. Most of the rest of the world seems to be in an "always summer". However, some of the free cities seem to experience some seasonal changes at least in terms of storminess.
Posted on 4/2/13 at 6:53 pm to kingbob
Do the Others bring the winter? or Does the Winter bring the Others?
Posted on 4/2/13 at 6:54 pm to CottonWasKing
What pages are Azor Ahai discussed on?
Posted on 4/2/13 at 7:35 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
Did the dragons bring the others or did they react to the comet
Posted on 4/2/13 at 7:46 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
The others seemed to be doing creepy things before the comet or the dragons hatching.
Posted on 4/2/13 at 7:47 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
I'm not sure how strong the relationship between Winter and the Others is. The seasons are pretty much always screwed up with extra long winters apparently within living memory while the Others haven't been around for I think thousands of years.
Though now that I've said that, I'm wondering how long Craster has been doing his sacrificing. Maybe the others have kept a small prescence in parts of the north.
Though now that I've said that, I'm wondering how long Craster has been doing his sacrificing. Maybe the others have kept a small prescence in parts of the north.
Posted on 4/2/13 at 9:02 pm to Methuselah
Neither had giants, dire wolves or the children of the forest.....
They've always been there they just haven't been seen/active
They've always been there they just haven't been seen/active
Posted on 4/2/13 at 10:16 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I think the Children created them with their magic to drive the First Men away. Now,
Boy, I sure got shot down when I espoused this 150 something pages ago
Seriously - to be fair, my theory was/is that the Others were created them, or the Others ARE TCOtF:
The First Men and tCotF fought initially, but eventually brokered peace, one of the conditions of which was no more WW trees were to be cut down, which was honored to the letter by TFM, even to the point of accepting the old gods as their religion. The peace lasted a good while, till the Andals invaded with The Seven as their religion.
TFM had bronze, but The Andals brought steel weapons and more sophistocated armor, etc and were basically blazing thru Westeros like a pre-cursor of Aegon, himself. The COTF used very powerful magic to stem the invasion-so strong it changed the actual landscape of Westeros forever,(creating The Neck, essentially) but to no avail, the Andals continued Northward, unabated, slashing every WW tree and defacing them, noting them as "Pagan" gods in need of destruction.
My theory is, TCotF, driven further and further North, either created The Others as the ultimate weapon against the Andal invaders, or even Became them in an attempt to either a) adapt their species to the harsh envrions in which they had been pushed before the genocide was complete;
or b) the few remaining C became consumed with hate and rage over having their world stolen and species wiped out, slowly 'evolving' into Others-or suffered side effects of the magic involved in a) -similar to Orcs and Elves in Tolkien.
Coming from this angle, I don't know if the Children (true children, like the ones w Bloodraven) are really evil...they may just be trying to undo the mistake completely (the 1000 yr sleep spell being the best they could do with the Others up till now) or simply trying to survive, period.
interesting side note: In Bloodraven's history in a wiki of ice and fire, it reads that Bloodraven took himself into the Land of Always Winter
"to await the birth of Bran Stark"
Posted on 4/2/13 at 10:37 pm to 19
The problem with this is that the Others far predate the Andals arrival to Westeros. They merely quarreled with the First Men.
Posted on 4/2/13 at 11:48 pm to 19
I thought the alliance of the First Men and the CotF were before the Andal invasion? Which would rule out the children inventing or becoming the Others to fight the Andals.
Also, to me, the Children and the Others seem to be polar opposites. The Children were pretty much all about nature and no technology. I think they were still in the stone tools (and obsidian blades) stage. The Others seem to have advanced armor and swords. The Children pretty much admit they are fading away and were slowly doing so even during the truce with the First men prior to the Andals. The Others seem to be trying to expand.
I'm just not seeing that type of connection between these two groups.
Now, I can see that there could be some ambiguity about which group is "good" and which is "evil" as it relates to the people of the seven kingdoms. Martin does not seem the type of writer to go for black and white motivations and his characters tend to be revealed in layers that sometime belie the first impressions given of them. For some reason, I have a hard time envisioning that he would then just leave the Other out there as generic totally bad guys.
Also, to me, the Children and the Others seem to be polar opposites. The Children were pretty much all about nature and no technology. I think they were still in the stone tools (and obsidian blades) stage. The Others seem to have advanced armor and swords. The Children pretty much admit they are fading away and were slowly doing so even during the truce with the First men prior to the Andals. The Others seem to be trying to expand.
I'm just not seeing that type of connection between these two groups.
Now, I can see that there could be some ambiguity about which group is "good" and which is "evil" as it relates to the people of the seven kingdoms. Martin does not seem the type of writer to go for black and white motivations and his characters tend to be revealed in layers that sometime belie the first impressions given of them. For some reason, I have a hard time envisioning that he would then just leave the Other out there as generic totally bad guys.
Posted on 4/2/13 at 11:55 pm to Methuselah
quote:
Also, to me, the Children and the Others seem to be polar opposites. The Children were pretty much all about nature and no technology. I think they were still in the stone tools (and obsidian blades) stage. The Others seem to have advanced armor and swords. The Children pretty much admit they are fading away and were slowly doing so even during the truce with the First men prior to the Andals. The Others seem to be trying to expand.
The other's armor and weapons are made of ice. Magic is their strength just as magic is the strength of the children
Posted on 4/3/13 at 6:55 am to CottonWasKing
I was going by the Game of Throne Wiki that refers to the book version as something like "a strange reflective metal that almost acts like a camaflouge". And the ASOIAF Wiki which refer to reflective armor and thin crystal swords.
I'll admit it's been quite a while since I read the passages from the actual books though. So I may be wrong. I've just always had the idea that their armor and swords had a definite element of technology in addition to possible magic.
I'll admit it's been quite a while since I read the passages from the actual books though. So I may be wrong. I've just always had the idea that their armor and swords had a definite element of technology in addition to possible magic.
Posted on 4/3/13 at 7:06 am to Methuselah
You may be right it's been awhile since I've read any of those chapters. I just always had the impression that they were Ice. I could be wrong though..... It's happened before
Posted on 4/3/13 at 7:17 am to CottonWasKing
Me too (I've been wrong before). Many times. 
I'll admit I am really intrigued to see where Martin goes with the Others. Hopefully he fleshes them out with some sort of complexity to their characters. Would he go so far as to have a chapter or two from an Others POV? I doubt it but ya never know.
But he gave the Dothraki some depth instead of just depecting them as a horse riding, raping, pillaging force of nature. I just have a suspiciion we'll see something more on the Others.
I'll admit I am really intrigued to see where Martin goes with the Others. Hopefully he fleshes them out with some sort of complexity to their characters. Would he go so far as to have a chapter or two from an Others POV? I doubt it but ya never know.
But he gave the Dothraki some depth instead of just depecting them as a horse riding, raping, pillaging force of nature. I just have a suspiciion we'll see something more on the Others.
Posted on 4/3/13 at 7:18 am to Papercutninja
quote:
I think that Aegon IV knew something about the PTWP/Others prophecies and that is why Bloodraven went to the Wall and then eventually went into the lands of Always Winter. I think that readers put a lot of emphasis on the brutal things that he had to do to insure his brother would get the Throne. The smallfolk all feared him because he was so powerful, the rest of the stuff about dark magic and evil ways could be just a misunderstanding of the people too unsophisitcated to know better. I mean seriously, they all think Tyrion burst forth from his mothers womb and devoured her simply because he was an elf, imagine being an albino bastard supporting an unpopular king. I am sure the smallfolk were all singing awesome songs about the guy and naming all their kids after him.
I am well aware of the Bloodraven aversion on this board by the more prominent posters but I think a lot of that has to do with preconceived notions of good vs. evil. GRRM does not adhere to those notions in any shape or form, and that is why I think we will all be suprised at Bloodraven's true intentions when all is said and done.
Agree 100%. I tried to articulate that idea months ago in this thread, but you laid it out better than I did.
The main thing to me is Aegon sending him to The Wall with Aemon. We know Aegon and Aemon were very close and respected each other, and I just don't think Aegon would have sent Bloodraven out of the black cells with Aemon if he didn't trust him.
Clearly there is much more we all have to learn about the Dunk & Egg era, but the smallfolk labeling Bloodraven as some sort of evil witch that they blame for the drought just smells an awful lot like Jamie's unfair reputation as Kingslayer to me.
We simply don't understand his true motivations or intentions at this point IMO, and I doubt they are as sinister as most believe.
This post was edited on 4/3/13 at 7:26 am
Posted on 4/3/13 at 8:07 am to Methuselah
quote:
But he gave the Dothraki some depth instead of just depecting them as a horse riding, raping, pillaging force of nature. I just have a suspiciion we'll see something more on the Others.
I agree. I think we'll at least get a deeper look into their motives. Martin isn't the type to write a mindless villain.
Posted on 4/3/13 at 8:11 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
I am well aware of the Bloodraven aversion on this board by the more prominent posters
Aww shucks...... After 10k+ posts I have finally been called a prominent poster. I'm honored
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