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re: My 9 y/o daughter's conclusion after seeing the climax in League of Their Own
Posted on 2/9/12 at 3:13 pm to Freauxzen
Posted on 2/9/12 at 3:13 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
My issue with this is outside of winning the game game, even IF she comes out from under Dottie's shadow on her own (which I don't believe she does, but your argument's sake), she does NOT change as a character. Her personality doesn't change. She doesn't evolve, she doesn't learn anything.She doesn't ascend in any form.
It seems like you're talking about Kit. And I don't think Kit does change, at least not while they're younger...the whole time, she's the bratty little sister who just wants to prove that she is as good as or better than the all-mighty Dottie Hinson.
I really need to rewatch this movie and take note of all of the looks and nods people give each other (like Jimmy and Dottie). Until that happens, I will remain in the "it was accidental" camp.
1
Posted on 2/9/12 at 3:15 pm to alajones
quote:
I see this is starting to get out of hand again.
You come and bump this two days short of a month since the last post and say something is out of hand.
Here's to the way you guys feel about this argument:
Posted on 2/9/12 at 3:15 pm to alajones
quote:
Because nothing backs it up except you alls interpretation. The events in the movie leading up to the collision do not.
NOPE. fundamental rules of storytelling. Context. Character motivations. All of it matters. Nothing that happens in movies is unintentional.
you're just missing this. I'm sorry for you. Because it's a much better movie the way it's written as opposed to this weird sticking up for the little sibling thing you have going.
i wonder how you do reading books? do you feel super sorry for voldemort?
Posted on 2/9/12 at 3:16 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
I really need to rewatch this movie and take note of all of the looks and nods people give each other (like Jimmy and Dottie). Until that happens, I will remain in the "it was accidental" camp.
do it.
it's almost entirely unmistakable that she drops it on purpose.
Posted on 2/9/12 at 3:16 pm to LSU Fan 90812
quote:
sorry dude. nope. Story is told from Dottie's perspective. With her reflecting on her life. Her time before she was mom and grand mom. Her interactions with the girls and Jimmy. The camera is never alone with Kit.
You can say nope all you want, but that doesn't mean that Kit isn't part of the story. Like I said, of course the movie is mainly about Dottie, but parts are also about Kit's struggles and Dottie's involvement. The camera doesn't have to be alone with Kit for her struggles to not matter and fit in with Dottie.
Posted on 2/9/12 at 3:18 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
You can say nope all you want, but that doesn't mean that Kit isn't part of the story. Like I said, of course the movie is mainly about Dottie, but parts are also about Kit's struggles and Dottie's involvement. The camera doesn't have to be alone with Kit for her struggles to not matter and fit in with Dottie.
then if the story is MAINLY about Dottie, then she is the protagonist. And it is her conflict that advances the plot. It is her conflict that makes the story go. And it is resolution of that conflict that provides the ending.
That's the fundamental basis of almost every story ever written.
Stop arguing until you've rewatched the movie a-hole!
This post was edited on 2/9/12 at 3:19 pm
Posted on 2/9/12 at 3:24 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:That was probably a little much. I meant to ay somehting like:
You are being so disrespectful to Kit with this attitude.
Why are we assuming Dottie gave her something? Why can't Kit have earned this on her own?
Posted on 2/9/12 at 3:29 pm to LSU Fan 90812
quote:You realize that when you say "I THINK Dottie did x because of blah, blah, blah, intangible, didn't really happen but that's how I see it, you are speculating.
NOPE. fundamental rules of storytelling. Context. Character motivations. All of it matters. Nothing that happens in movies is unintentional
Posted on 2/9/12 at 3:35 pm to Zamoro10
quote:
It's a smile of being proud.
Dottie is a competitor.
Dottie- “High fastballs. She can’t hit ‘em. Can’t lay off em.”
She smiles because she's proud in the end that her sis received the accolades she so desperately wanted...but because she earned it; she finally beat her older sister. Dottie wouldn't be proud of Kit if she gave her the game.
nailed it
Posted on 2/9/12 at 3:43 pm to alajones
quote:
You realize that when you say "I THINK Dottie did x because of blah, blah, blah, intangible, didn't really happen but that's how I see it, you are speculating.
nope. i'm not speculating at all.
this is how movies/stories/books are constructed.
something doesn't have to be explicit to be there.
there is mountains and mountains of evidence.
LINK
you're obviously not good at it.
Posted on 2/9/12 at 3:46 pm to alajones
quote:
Why can't Kit have earned this on her own?
DING!
Kit BEAT Dottie. The younger, insecure sister beat "Miss Perfect." She became her own person, and not "Dottie's sister."
This means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING if Dottie gave it to her. Kit's entire self-image would be based on a complete falsehood. Considering this movie was about the empowerment of women, that would be one hell of a "frick you" by the director.
Posted on 2/9/12 at 3:55 pm to udtiger
quote:
This means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING if Dottie gave it to her. Kit's entire self-image would be based on a complete falsehood. Considering this movie was about the empowerment of women, that would be one hell of a "frick you" by the director.
no guys. it would be built on the idea that her sister loves her. and that they know each other and respect each other's desires.
you're coming at this from a guy/competitor standpoint.
just entirely missing the movie.
it's sad.
Posted on 2/9/12 at 4:07 pm to LSU Fan 90812
The condescension is really appreciated. Can't imagine where the elitist comment could have come from.
Posted on 2/9/12 at 4:22 pm to alajones
quote:
The condescension is really appreciated. Can't imagine where the elitist comment could have come from.
from the same place as your misguided angst about the whole thing.
but it's cool.
Posted on 2/9/12 at 4:39 pm to udtiger
quote:
DING!
Kit BEAT Dottie. The younger, insecure sister beat "Miss Perfect." She became her own person, and not "Dottie's sister."
This means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING if Dottie gave it to her. Kit's entire self-image would be based on a complete falsehood. Considering this movie was about the empowerment of women, that would be one hell of a "frick you" by the director.
Except you're making this out to be about Kit. Like Kit's the hero. And Kit experience a rise and fall.
Let's try this again:
In no way, shape or form is A League of Their Own about Kit. Kit doesn't change. She doesn't sacrifice. The climax of the film is not ABOUT her, because she did nothing of consequence to get there. The viewer does not witness a trial and journey or anything about KIT.
If it's not clear enough, then Marhsall made a terrible movie and we shouldn't be talking about it.
This post was edited on 2/9/12 at 4:41 pm
Posted on 2/9/12 at 4:51 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
If it's not clear enough, then Marhsall made a terrible movie and we shouldn't be talking about it.
disagree on that point
I like the ambiguity and think it speaks more to the movie being extremely well crafted
Posted on 2/9/12 at 4:52 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Except you're making this out to be about Kit. Like Kit's the hero. And Kit experience a rise and fall.
Let's try this again:
In no way, shape or form is A League of Their Own about Kit. Kit doesn't change. She doesn't sacrifice. The climax of the film is not ABOUT her, because she did nothing of consequence to get there. The viewer does not witness a trial and journey or anything about KIT.
If it's not clear enough, then Marhsall made a terrible movie and we shouldn't be talking about it.
i'm serious. it really makes me sad that people don't understand when they're really missing a piece of literature/film.
it's not like I WANT DOTTIE to give it to Kit. In all actuality, the part of the movie that is compelling is that as a viewer a huge part of you WANTS Dottie to continue to be her dominant self. It's part of what you like about the character. A part of you wishes that Dottie would say no to married life and be the best female ball player of all time. To not go with bill pullman. To pal around with Jimmy Dugan and win championships. But that's the internal struggle that Dottie deals with and the decision she ultimately makes.
She wants her life with her husband. She wants kids and grandkids. It's Kit who wants to be set free and escape the dairy farm. And it's Dottie's parting gift to her in that world is to set her free.
People don't truly understand when they're missing the point, or an author's intention. When they can't read a book or watch a movie at face value without bringing any emotion to it, and read it as a blue print for what's supposed to be said, the actions, the plot, the character's and everything else.
i always feel bad for them. it's not condescension really. it's just genuine sympathy akin to when people can't take context clues in social situations.
there are only a few things i'm truly good at, but reading/film comprehension is one of them.
Posted on 2/9/12 at 4:56 pm to LSU Fan 90812
quote:
i'm serious. it really makes me sad that people don't understand when they're really missing a piece of literature/film.
it's not like I WANT DOTTIE to give it to Kit. In all actuality, the part of the movie that is compelling is that as a viewer a huge part of you WANTS Dottie to continue to be her dominant self. It's part of what you like about the character. A part of you wishes that Dottie would say no to married life and be the best female ball player of all time. To not go with bill pullman. To pal around with Jimmy Dugan and win championships. But that's the internal struggle that Dottie deals with and the decision she ultimately makes.
She wants her life with her husband. She wants kids and grandkids. It's Kit who wants to be set free and escape the dairy farm. And it's Dottie's parting gift to her in that world is to set her free.
Bingo.
I find it frustrating, I was trying to settle the thread earlier, but am wrapped in the debate now only because I am frustrated with this focus on Kit. I don't get it.
Posted on 2/9/12 at 4:57 pm to LSU Fan 90812
quote:dramatic structure is such a fundamental piece to understanding what a film/play/story is trying to tell you.
it really makes me sad that people don't understand when they're really missing a piece of literature/film
If you just sit back and think about it, it becomes quite clear the movie is about Dottie. You can't fit Kit(as protagonist) into the structure and have it work. It just doesn't
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