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Message
Question about A Song of Fire and Ice
Posted on 11/29/11 at 10:58 am
Posted on 11/29/11 at 10:58 am
A friend of mine sent me this evaluation of the books and I wanted the board's opinion on this opinion:
quote:
It was a real game changer in fantasy literature, and maybe just fiction in general. I've seen authors thank George Martin for showing them that if you aren't afraid to kill off characters that people love, then they REALLY love the ones that are left. It really mixed in great conniving and politics to the backdrop of a fantasy setting, while not taking the fantasy too far. That is, making it somewhat believable, if you can accept dragons as realistic. In many ways I find it similar to Ken Folletts Pillars of the Earth (which obviously wasn't fantasy). The only downside is despite three fantastic books, the fourth went straight down the path formed by Robert Jordan, which was to write 1200 pages where the plot wasn't even marginally advanced. I'm almost impressed that this is possible -- it must be really hard to write that many words and do so little.
I enjoyed the first 3 books so much that I reread all of the existing ones each time a new one came out so that I would be up to date on what was happening. There are a great many details and literally dozens of characters, so with the ever increasing gap between publishing of books, it is easy to lose track. The first one came out in 1996, and then 2 and 3 were 1999 and 2000. The incredibly disappointing book 4 required a 5 year wait, which fans were mollified by the promise that in actuality, book 5 had been written at the same time and the publisher just wanted to wait a suitable amount of time to release it. That suitable amount of time turned out to be April of 2011, which means that there was very little truth to that promise. At this rate, it is a certainty that he will die before the conclusion of the series (which coincidentally is what happened to Robert Jordan). My new theory of books is don't even start a new series until every book has been published.
So should you read it? You can have a 13 year head start on waiting for the end of it, and certainly the first 3 books are fantastic, but if it takes the turn that it looks like it's taking, you won't ever see a conclusion, so maybe just wait for the DVDs or watch it on HBO. Very frustrating.
8
Posted on 11/29/11 at 11:06 am to Tiger JJ
quote:
you won't ever see a conclusion
unless that fat frick dies this series will be wrapped up
Posted on 11/29/11 at 11:13 am to Tiger JJ
Here's what I think:
First, he's basically right about some of the things that work in the books. It's not just about the willingness to kill off characters though. The characters are really absorbing. Even the minor ones will catch your eye.
He's also basically right about two of the things that frustrate people with regard to the series... that book four wasn't really all that exciting... and that it took so long to get to book five.
However, he's really overstating it. Truthfully, book four isn't that bad. It's just doesn't push a lot of plot. It doesn't ruin things for the series. Book five is not perfect, but it's really good. And plot does move forward there. I'm satisfied where the story is after five books.
Lastly, the suggestion that you shouldn't read what's there because the author may die... is kind of overboard. The books are good enough to stand alone as is, and you won't feel like it was a waste of time if the story isn't tied up according to your schedule.
Leaving the end of the story to HBO... now that would be a travesty. You would be missing out on some seriously good reading. There are times in the series where your jaw will drop, as though you just saw Melody Anderson's sweet, sweet sugary tits. You might even throw the book across the room, like I did. I've never felt that kind of reaction to a book before. This is the only series that does that to me.
First, he's basically right about some of the things that work in the books. It's not just about the willingness to kill off characters though. The characters are really absorbing. Even the minor ones will catch your eye.
He's also basically right about two of the things that frustrate people with regard to the series... that book four wasn't really all that exciting... and that it took so long to get to book five.
However, he's really overstating it. Truthfully, book four isn't that bad. It's just doesn't push a lot of plot. It doesn't ruin things for the series. Book five is not perfect, but it's really good. And plot does move forward there. I'm satisfied where the story is after five books.
Lastly, the suggestion that you shouldn't read what's there because the author may die... is kind of overboard. The books are good enough to stand alone as is, and you won't feel like it was a waste of time if the story isn't tied up according to your schedule.
Leaving the end of the story to HBO... now that would be a travesty. You would be missing out on some seriously good reading. There are times in the series where your jaw will drop, as though you just saw Melody Anderson's sweet, sweet sugary tits. You might even throw the book across the room, like I did. I've never felt that kind of reaction to a book before. This is the only series that does that to me.
Posted on 11/29/11 at 11:17 am to SpqrTiger
quote:
There are times in the series where your jaw will drop, as though you just saw Melody Anderson's sweet, sweet sugary tits.
Posted on 11/29/11 at 11:36 am to Tiger JJ
I have under 100 pages left in book 4 and it does suck compared to the first 3 books. I would still recommend reading them. Hopefully book 5 will be better.
Posted on 11/29/11 at 11:42 am to LSUSUPERSTAR
In all fairness, it would be extremely difficult to top Book 3.
Posted on 11/29/11 at 11:57 am to Bard
where do whores go?
Posted on 11/29/11 at 11:59 am to Bard
That's fairly accurate. Book 4 and 5 are what happens when an author becomes too powerful and stops listening to his editors. Martin has surrounded himself with sycophants and his writing has suffered.
Posted on 11/29/11 at 12:01 pm to SpqrTiger
Yeah....I think the main reason why books 4 and 5 (which chronologically is the same book) slow down so much is because the plot is so bifurcated and so much is happening at each point.
Earlier on, the plots often were interlaced so that you can skip stones over time because the events in one POV carried over to another.
Earlier on, the plots often were interlaced so that you can skip stones over time because the events in one POV carried over to another.
Posted on 11/29/11 at 12:04 pm to Tiger JJ
Read the first one but I'm just going to watch the HBO series for the rest. Too many other books to read in life, no point in experiencing the redundancy of a 500-1,000 page novel which is later spread out over 10 episodes.
Posted on 11/29/11 at 1:27 pm to Tiger JJ
I actually enjoyed Book 4. It may not move the main storyline much, but it does flesh out a lot of the plot, imo. Book 5 was also good. Book 3 is by far the best, imo. The first 2 are obviously dynamite as well. You really can't go wrong with them. Your friend sounds a little butt hurt that the series isn't going exactly how he wants it to or something. I don't know.
Posted on 11/29/11 at 1:36 pm to Tiger JJ
I am on book 5 right now. Just finished the first two chapters and it already has me sucked in like the first 3. I think the hate for book 4 is that it gives some new characters while giving you point of view on many minor characters from the first 3. Book four is basically a 600+ page prologue to book 5 IMO. It is by no way a bad novel and is still better than many things i have read. A Song of Fire and Ice is by far the best series i have ever read and possibly the most entertaining fantasy story i have been introduced to. His level of detail is amazing.
Posted on 11/29/11 at 3:03 pm to Leauxgan
quote:
Read the first one but I'm just going to watch the HBO series for the rest.
Mistake on a huge level
Posted on 11/29/11 at 4:06 pm to bayoudude
quote:
I think the hate for book 4 is that it gives some new characters while giving you point of view on many minor characters from the first 3.
and that is the reason i liked it. of course, i read all five books back-to-back. when i got to book 4, it was actually a nice change of pace because it focused on new and minor characters.
but i can see, if you read them as they came out, why some fans found that book very disappointing.
Posted on 11/29/11 at 4:41 pm to ChicagoTiger
I agree.....the series doesn't come close to capturing the depth of characterization as the novels
Posted on 11/29/11 at 5:59 pm to Leauxgan
quote:
Read the first one but I'm just going to watch the HBO series for the rest. Too many other books to read in life, no point in experiencing the redundancy of a 500-1,000 page novel which is later spread out over 10 episodes
I was debating doing that, I loved the HBO series so much that I read the 2nd book. Before I decided to jump into the 3rd book, I think I'll watch the 2nd season and then decide.
Posted on 11/29/11 at 6:05 pm to Volvagia
As far as the OP goes, he has some fair points. But in fairness the third book is so amazing that the 4th book couldn't possibly compare. That being said, books 4 and 5 don't advance the plot much, particularly given how long they took to write. If you were reading them all back to back you'll enjoy 4 and 5 much more however, as they are decent if nothing special.
Either way, the first three book are so good I'd suggest going ahead and reading the series now even if Martin never finished it. Hopefully he gets his butt in gear and finishes the 6th book more quickly.
Either way, the first three book are so good I'd suggest going ahead and reading the series now even if Martin never finished it. Hopefully he gets his butt in gear and finishes the 6th book more quickly.
Posted on 11/29/11 at 6:36 pm to auyushu
I give the 6th book about 3 years to come out imo...
George doesn't want to take the chance that HBO cancels because he wont get off his arse. Thats my opinion anyway
George doesn't want to take the chance that HBO cancels because he wont get off his arse. Thats my opinion anyway
Posted on 11/29/11 at 7:03 pm to Tiger JJ
quote:
In many ways I find it similar to Ken Folletts Pillars of the Earth (
A truly great novel.
Posted on 11/29/11 at 7:07 pm to Tiger JJ
the 3rd book might be the best fantasy book ever written. the 4th and 5th just doesn't draw me in like the first 3 did but still enjoyable to read.
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