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Message
Analyzing Lee's Throws (With Screenshots)
Posted on 9/4/11 at 9:44 pm
Posted on 9/4/11 at 9:44 pm
I'm almost reluctant to post this, seeing as how there's been at least 11,000 threads today about how the poor performance last night either was or wasn't his fault. Regardless, I told some posters I'd do it, so here it is.
I'm going to document all the debatable throws, complete and incomplete (i.e. the throw aways and passes that were wildly incomplete will not have screen shots). I wish I had the capability to create GIFs (I tried to figure out how to do it for free), because that would be a lot more useful.
1) Incomplete to Blue
Nothing really wrong with this throw, though Lee slipped at first. I don't really know what Blue was doing.
2) Complete to Beckham
Couldn't get a screen shot.
Little swing pass to Beckham. Nothing wrong with this throw.
3) Complete to Beckham
Decent toss. Beckham fell down after cutting his route short. Hard to tell what was going on. Inconclusive.
4) Incomplete to Clement
I go back and forth on this throw. It's not terrible, by any means. It may have lead to it being incomplete/dropped. If it's throw on a little lower trajectory Clement can catch it in stride, rather than having to leave his feet, which exposed him to the big hit/incomplete. Still that's probably asking for too much, and Clement should have come down with the ball.
5) Complete to Ware
Throws it inside, in front of Ware so he can catch it in stride. Nice toss.
6) Incomplete to Boone
Lee completely short-arms this one. Boone had his man beat completely, had to cut his route short and contend for a jump ball because Lee got timid and threw up a second before getting hit. He also threw it off his back foot...On one hand, he's probably conscious of trying not to take the sack, on the other, it caused a fly route to turn into a comeback (of sorts). Even still, Boone completely whiffed on it and should have caught it. But, bad throw. If Ford picks up the blitz here, this may have been a TD if the ball is thrown well.
7) Incomplete to Beckham
Pretty similar to the Clement play only with tighter coverage. Not sure why we're tossing it up to a small, speedy WR. Throw not terrible, but not great either. Not sure of the coverage or design here, but it sure seemed like there was nothing behind Beckham, so why not lob it out further in front of him and allow him to run under it? Much the same, Beckham is having to leave his feet to go up to get it... high throws were pretty consistent. Typically a sign of bad feet or nervousness...
8) Incomplete Throw Away
9) Incomplete to Ford
This was just a little safety valve play/dump underneath that was thrown completely behind Ford, who had 5-8 yards to run, maybe more with the way he was doing work in the open field last night. Horrible throw. I used this screen shot to show you how open he was... that ball landed behind him...
10) Incomplete to Peterson
Again, way behind him. Nothing to say here, just a horrible throw on what could have been 10-12 yards of gain.
11) Incomplete to Clement 2.0
People keep blaming Chase for this... he's having to dive to catch it. Wasn't a good throw.
12) Complete to Landry
Throw was a touch behind Landry, but not enough to make him break stride, so no big deal. But, this throw won't make him very popular with the players... as he lead Landry right into getting smoked.
13) Complete to Ford
Placed perfectly, right in front of Ford so he can catch with his hands and go. Great throw. Lee's soft touch really helps in the short passing game... something we can never do with J.J.
14) Complete to Peterson
Pretty good throw here, getting it in front of D-Lo, who used his big body to shield the defender and catch it. Replay you can see how much the ball wobbles and D-Lo almost drops it. The lack of smooth spiral could contribute to drops.
15) Incomplete to Randle
Screenshot sucked here.
This probably would have been caught as Randle had just posted up, but he got completely mugged.
Throw seemed fine... hard to tell exactly what route he is running, if he's cutting it off to adjust to the ball going behind him or if he was posting up.
I'm going to document all the debatable throws, complete and incomplete (i.e. the throw aways and passes that were wildly incomplete will not have screen shots). I wish I had the capability to create GIFs (I tried to figure out how to do it for free), because that would be a lot more useful.
1) Incomplete to Blue
Nothing really wrong with this throw, though Lee slipped at first. I don't really know what Blue was doing.
2) Complete to Beckham
Couldn't get a screen shot.
Little swing pass to Beckham. Nothing wrong with this throw.
3) Complete to Beckham
Decent toss. Beckham fell down after cutting his route short. Hard to tell what was going on. Inconclusive.
4) Incomplete to Clement
I go back and forth on this throw. It's not terrible, by any means. It may have lead to it being incomplete/dropped. If it's throw on a little lower trajectory Clement can catch it in stride, rather than having to leave his feet, which exposed him to the big hit/incomplete. Still that's probably asking for too much, and Clement should have come down with the ball.
5) Complete to Ware
Throws it inside, in front of Ware so he can catch it in stride. Nice toss.
6) Incomplete to Boone
Lee completely short-arms this one. Boone had his man beat completely, had to cut his route short and contend for a jump ball because Lee got timid and threw up a second before getting hit. He also threw it off his back foot...On one hand, he's probably conscious of trying not to take the sack, on the other, it caused a fly route to turn into a comeback (of sorts). Even still, Boone completely whiffed on it and should have caught it. But, bad throw. If Ford picks up the blitz here, this may have been a TD if the ball is thrown well.
7) Incomplete to Beckham
Pretty similar to the Clement play only with tighter coverage. Not sure why we're tossing it up to a small, speedy WR. Throw not terrible, but not great either. Not sure of the coverage or design here, but it sure seemed like there was nothing behind Beckham, so why not lob it out further in front of him and allow him to run under it? Much the same, Beckham is having to leave his feet to go up to get it... high throws were pretty consistent. Typically a sign of bad feet or nervousness...
8) Incomplete Throw Away
9) Incomplete to Ford
This was just a little safety valve play/dump underneath that was thrown completely behind Ford, who had 5-8 yards to run, maybe more with the way he was doing work in the open field last night. Horrible throw. I used this screen shot to show you how open he was... that ball landed behind him...
10) Incomplete to Peterson
Again, way behind him. Nothing to say here, just a horrible throw on what could have been 10-12 yards of gain.
11) Incomplete to Clement 2.0
People keep blaming Chase for this... he's having to dive to catch it. Wasn't a good throw.
12) Complete to Landry
Throw was a touch behind Landry, but not enough to make him break stride, so no big deal. But, this throw won't make him very popular with the players... as he lead Landry right into getting smoked.
13) Complete to Ford
Placed perfectly, right in front of Ford so he can catch with his hands and go. Great throw. Lee's soft touch really helps in the short passing game... something we can never do with J.J.
14) Complete to Peterson
Pretty good throw here, getting it in front of D-Lo, who used his big body to shield the defender and catch it. Replay you can see how much the ball wobbles and D-Lo almost drops it. The lack of smooth spiral could contribute to drops.
15) Incomplete to Randle
Screenshot sucked here.
This probably would have been caught as Randle had just posted up, but he got completely mugged.
Throw seemed fine... hard to tell exactly what route he is running, if he's cutting it off to adjust to the ball going behind him or if he was posting up. 
26
Posted on 9/4/11 at 9:44 pm to OBUDan
16) Complete to Randle
Looks like a read route here, with the opportunity to throw a fade or a comeback based on what the defender is trying to take away. Lee drops it to Randle's outside shoulder. At first viewing I thought he horribly underthrew a fade, but looks like a pretty good throw.
17) Incomplete to Randle
Lee just aired that one out there, out of the reach of anyone. Could have been done on purpose when he realized the coverage was pretty good.. dunno. Inconclusive.
18) Incomplete to Ford
Had some pressure, but unlike the previous throw where he dropped it in nicely, he threw this too hard and too far in front of Ford because he panicked. Could have been a huge gainer... Bad throw.
19) Complete to Peterson
This is one of those bad throw completions. It's a simple, short out... should be thrown out in front of Peterson for him to turn and run. Instead he throws it to his back shoulder so he has to stop his momentum, turn around and catch the ball. It's not a devastating miss, but still not a throw where you want it.
20) Incomplete to Boone
He throws this too low and as a result, Boone is forced to dive to try and catch it. I think people are labeling this a "drop." If the ball is thrown out in front of Boone he may be able to catch and run. There is a safety that comes flying into the picture and likely why Lee short armed it. So I'd say inconclusive.
21) Complete to Peterson
Best throw of the night. Drops this one in perfectly over the LB right to Peterson in stride.
22) Incomplete to Randle
Pretty glad we got a P.I. because I'm not sure Randle was going to catch this one. He's having to dive out for a bit. Ball was pretty high and outside.
22) Incomplete to Beckham
This was more of a weird play call than anything I guess. Throw was off. Again, he's throwing off the back foot... again short arming. No major harm here, but if he steps into the throw and gets that one a bit more in front of Beckham, he catches it for a TD. Instead, he's battling for a jump ball...
23) Complete to Beckham (not recorded due to penalty)
Beckham was so wide open on this play... all he had to do was drop it in there and it's a TD (forget the shitty holding call). Instead he gets anxious and overthrows it and Beckham has to dive for it.
Conclusion
Ultimately, what I'd say is that a good number of Lee's drops were off target. Could his stats have looked better if his receivers catch a couple of balls? Yes. Does that mean they were good throws? No.
Some of this is over-analysis because obviously every single throw isn't going to be perfect and online. What concerns me is that I see the same trends we've seen from him throughout his career... throwing off the back foot, panicking in the fact of even slight pressure, just a general "fear" in how he plays the game. He doesn't strike me as decisive.
But, it is his first game as the starter with no questions asked. He needs rebuilt confidence. Could this be a building block? Possibly. But I'm also of the belief that the hand-holding should stop. He's a 5th-year Senior. What happened 3 seasons ago should be erased from his memory and there's no reason to use that an excuse for his poor play.
Is Lee decent enough for LSU to win a title with? Depends. McElroy for Bama was never a stat monger, but he generally played smart and put Bama in good position. He was IN CONTROL. I don't necessarily get the same sense from Lee (checking into a run play right into the teeth of the defense last night) for instance.
My personal stance is to hope for the best and expect the worst (exactly how I would feel with Jefferson in there). I have very little optimism that either of those two will give us anything more than what we've seen of them the past 4 years.
Posted on 9/4/11 at 9:46 pm to OBUDan
Is this your way of bitching about Lee?
Posted on 9/4/11 at 9:52 pm to papasmurf1269
Awesome post 
Can't argue with the evidence. Hope for the best, expect the worst. Lee blowers will want to rip you , but stats and pics don't lie. He needs some polishing, but has the tools. He has a good arm. I do like him better than Jefferson, but can't help but wonder what Mett would look like in a game.
Can't argue with the evidence. Hope for the best, expect the worst. Lee blowers will want to rip you , but stats and pics don't lie. He needs some polishing, but has the tools. He has a good arm. I do like him better than Jefferson, but can't help but wonder what Mett would look like in a game. This post was edited on 9/4/11 at 9:53 pm
Posted on 9/4/11 at 9:53 pm to OBUDan
You are hardcore bro. Nice post.
Posted on 9/4/11 at 9:55 pm to OBUDan
quote:
This was just a little safety valve play/dump underneath that was thrown completely behind Ford, who had 5-8 yards to run, maybe more with the way he was doing work in the open field last night. Horrible throw. I used this screen shot to show you how open he was... that ball landed behind him...
shows your bias.
The dump-off man never looked around for the ball. This was basically a throwaway because the receiver did not do his job. Your screen shot even confirms his firld of vision because hes looking at the camera, with the ball on its way.
And you call it a bad throw
:dearlordmakeitstop:
Posted on 9/4/11 at 9:55 pm to OBUDan
great post
Posted on 9/4/11 at 9:57 pm to OBUDan
The #7 Shot to OBJ was one that was thrown late. He was open but the ball didn't get there. Hope this improves with time. The back foot shite is disturbing.
Posted on 9/4/11 at 9:58 pm to OBUDan
I agree with 90 percent.
I saw the same Lee, back foot, falling back, and the panic when rushed.
Either our routes are pretty bad, or UO had real good cover guys, we were covered pretty well..and most throws were not on time.
I saw the same Lee, back foot, falling back, and the panic when rushed.
Either our routes are pretty bad, or UO had real good cover guys, we were covered pretty well..and most throws were not on time.
Posted on 9/4/11 at 10:00 pm to OBUDan
I will be anticipating if he makes improvement from week to week. That was a huge stage last night and Lee made some good throws and bad throws as evidenced by his footwork and missed targets. I hope he can get in rhythm with the receivers and start to dial it in.
Posted on 9/4/11 at 10:02 pm to OBUDan
so basically what has been re-hashed most of the day.
There were 3-4 balls that absolutely should have been caught.
Not every throw is perfect and I dont expect it to be. Whether it is Drew Brees or Jarrett Lee.
I dont think anyone is using what happened 3 years ago as an excuse.
I think it is more along the lines of him playing sporadically over the last 2 years(basically didnt play at all in 2009) that can be used to give him a break for a few games.
And even more so throwing the ball to a Freshman WRs and otherwise inexperienced WR corp after taking reps with the 2's mostly throughout the offseason. Chemistry isnt built over night. And his confidence in game surely isn't aided by WRs dropping passes, whether they are perfect or not.
There were 3-4 balls that absolutely should have been caught.
Not every throw is perfect and I dont expect it to be. Whether it is Drew Brees or Jarrett Lee.
quote:
He's a 5th-year Senior. What happened 3 seasons ago should be erased from his memory and there's no reason to use that an excuse for his poor play.
I dont think anyone is using what happened 3 years ago as an excuse.
I think it is more along the lines of him playing sporadically over the last 2 years(basically didnt play at all in 2009) that can be used to give him a break for a few games.
And even more so throwing the ball to a Freshman WRs and otherwise inexperienced WR corp after taking reps with the 2's mostly throughout the offseason. Chemistry isnt built over night. And his confidence in game surely isn't aided by WRs dropping passes, whether they are perfect or not.
Posted on 9/4/11 at 10:03 pm to tigerfoot
Lee will win a NC.
Posted on 9/4/11 at 10:05 pm to OBUDan
I agree with everything but the times you said horrible.
Posted on 9/4/11 at 10:10 pm to AlxTgr
Agreed with the back foot thing, except the phrase I would use to describe it is "swivel footing." He doesn't lean on his back leg and throw the ball up for grabs. Rather, he rotates his legs around almost as if to better square up against a blindside defender hitting him.
He played very solid last night, but there's no excuse for this kind of shite to happen. I know the kid has nerves and resorts to bad habits under the slightest bit of pressure, but he knows better than this.
I know, because I've seen him throw correctly in practice. Krags needs to tell the kid to cement his back leg to the floor and throw with a more solid foundation.
He played very solid last night, but there's no excuse for this kind of shite to happen. I know the kid has nerves and resorts to bad habits under the slightest bit of pressure, but he knows better than this.
I know, because I've seen him throw correctly in practice. Krags needs to tell the kid to cement his back leg to the floor and throw with a more solid foundation.
Posted on 9/4/11 at 10:14 pm to OBUDan
Leave Laser-Lock'on Lee alone
Posted on 9/4/11 at 10:23 pm to OBUDan
Thanks for the post excellent objective breakdown.
Posted on 9/4/11 at 10:25 pm to OBUDan
quote:
At first viewing I thought he horribly underthrew a fade, but looks like a pretty good throw.
That was a textbook back shoulder route. Impossible to defend if thrown properly and the receiver runs the route correctly. The only complaint I had about this was that Lee could have put a little more on the throw, but that's nit picking. Great play call and execution, IMO.
Posted on 9/4/11 at 10:25 pm to OBUDan
Thank u for the break down so some of these guys can see what really happened.
Posted on 9/4/11 at 10:27 pm to OBUDan
Thanks for taking the time to do this. Board has been dillusional since the first pass thrown. The "drops" are poorly thrown balls, not perfect throws that the WRs dropped.
Posted on 9/4/11 at 10:28 pm to OBUDan
quote:
OBUDan
Maybe you should go back to some films from last season and perform this type of analysis on our QB play.
Seems to me you might then be convinced that this was the best accuracy performance we have had in over a year.
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