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Message
Engineering execs v Fianance execs
Posted on 7/20/11 at 10:14 am
Posted on 7/20/11 at 10:14 am
LINK
Thoughts?
quote:
That said, his new book, Car Guys vs. Bean Counters: The Battle for the Soul of American Business, has a message worth hearing. To get the U.S. economy growing again, Lutz says, we need to fire the M.B.A.s and let engineers run the show.
Lutz's main argument is that companies, shareholders and consumers are best served by product-driven executives. In his book, Lutz wisecracks his way through the 1960s design- and technology-led glory days at GM to the late-1970s takeover by gangs of M.B.A.s. Executives, once largely developed from engineering, began emerging from finance. The results ranged from the sobering (managers signing off on inferior products because customers "had no choice") to the hilarious (Cadillac ashtrays that wouldn't open because of corporate mandates that they be designed to function at -40°F). It's pretty easy to imagine Car Guy Lutz removing his mirrored shades and shouting to the cowering line manager, "Well, customers in North Dakota will be happy. Too bad nobody else will!"
Thoughts?
6
Posted on 7/20/11 at 10:42 am to barry
Need both imo. Product guys to stay relevant, bean counters to stay competitive in the marketplace.
I'd much rather deal with the product oriented guys and I want them to lead the way...but if I'm priced out of the target market I can't sell that perfectly designed product to anyone.
Of course the ashtray example is ludicrous and I'm sure we could find many equally silly instances but I look at them as outliers that make a better Time magazine article---not a reason to axe or demote every executive with a finance background.
I'd much rather deal with the product oriented guys and I want them to lead the way...but if I'm priced out of the target market I can't sell that perfectly designed product to anyone.
Of course the ashtray example is ludicrous and I'm sure we could find many equally silly instances but I look at them as outliers that make a better Time magazine article---not a reason to axe or demote every executive with a finance background.
Posted on 7/20/11 at 1:12 pm to barry
Silly. Most people that have worked in environments that involve many engineers and MBA's, know that both skill sets are appreciated and needed.
Mechanical Engineering B.S. + MBA = what I should've done with my life
Mechanical Engineering B.S. + MBA = what I should've done with my life
Posted on 7/20/11 at 1:25 pm to LSUAfro
Probably biased but you can teach an engineer to manage finances, you can't teach a financer(sp?)to do engineering
Posted on 7/20/11 at 1:27 pm to barry
Making a distinction between people with MBAs and people with Engineering degrees is extremely vague.
It's not like these are akin to degrees in Spanish or something where you know full-well what the degree is good for merely on its face.
It's not like these are akin to degrees in Spanish or something where you know full-well what the degree is good for merely on its face.
Posted on 7/20/11 at 1:37 pm to RedStickBR
Engineers can make a car that everyone wants but few can afford.
Beancounters can make a care that most can afford but no one wants.
Beancounters can make a care that most can afford but no one wants.
Posted on 7/20/11 at 1:43 pm to RedStickBR
quote:
Making a distinction between people with MBAs and people with Engineering degrees is extremely vague.
It's not like these are akin to degrees in Spanish or something where you know full-well what the degree is good for merely on its face.
No but I can tell you there is, on average, gonna be a big difference in the thinking of a finance degreed person v engineering degreed individual.
Posted on 7/20/11 at 1:51 pm to bbvdd
Budgets are drilled into engineers so I don't think they would really ignore costs during designs.
Posted on 7/20/11 at 1:55 pm to barry
Posted on 7/20/11 at 1:59 pm to C
quote:
C
What do you have planned for the 10k post?
Posted on 7/20/11 at 2:03 pm to C
quote:
Budgets are drilled into engineers so I don't think they would really ignore costs during designs.
Who do you think drills those budgets into them
Posted on 7/20/11 at 2:50 pm to HamSandwich
Anyone who can work a spreadsheet.
Posted on 7/20/11 at 3:04 pm to C
quote:Not even close to true, bro. It's a two way street as far as ability to learn is concerned.
Probably biased but you can teach an engineer to manage finances, you can't teach a financer(sp?)to do engineering
Posted on 7/20/11 at 3:42 pm to Athanatos
quote:
Not even close to true, bro. It's a two way street as far as ability to learn is concerned.
Without a doubt.
I tend to think the engineers at my company are overpaid for what they actually do and probably vice versa for them to me. The truth is they are both technical fields that can require significant studying and training to be done well. That's why I said it's a silly article, but it's going to get readers.
Posted on 7/20/11 at 4:34 pm to TheHiddenFlask
quote:
What do you have planned for the 10k post?
I'd probably put some thought into it, if it would be marked for eternity as that post. I'm not really into putting up babe threads. I just sit back and enjoy. I did just buy the book "the richest man in babylon" for my flight in about an hour. I could do a review? But I doubt I'll make it past boarding. I'm only 2 away I think. Any requests?
ETA: I thought about faking a suicide note on the OT lounge as I am "leaving the earth" (taking a flight) but I don't want to get banned. Plus it's a pretty shitty thing to do.
Maybe I'll bump my first post, if I can find it...
ETA2: nope, my old screen name doesn't have my original post. Oh well.
This post was edited on 7/20/11 at 5:09 pm
Posted on 7/20/11 at 9:04 pm to C
Completely agree with most engineers being overpaid at least were I work. Though, all the ones that I work with are basically project managers who call others to do the actual engineering work.
I'm actually a finance guy that can do structural engineering better than most engineers, although I had training from one of the best structural engineers in the oil and gas industry.
quote:
Probably biased but you can teach an engineer to manage finances, you can't teach a financer(sp?)to do engineering
I'm actually a finance guy that can do structural engineering better than most engineers, although I had training from one of the best structural engineers in the oil and gas industry.
Posted on 7/20/11 at 9:44 pm to barry
quote:
Engineering execs v Fianance execs
A few random thoughts:
I work in the O&G industry and folks that are in executive positions with MBAs still characterize themselves as engineers.
Engineers with and without MBAs are at the highest postions. An MBA is not necessarily a ticket to the top however it can help. Your quickest way to the top is to work your arse off, be flexible in your willingness to move and continue to take on challenging projects and learn, and learn more. These demands conflict with work life balance and is a challenge to manage.
Most engineers are moved into project management. You only spend 5 to 10% of your time (if you are lucky) engineering once you move into a project management role.
The most difficult step for an engineer transitioning to at project management role is the concept of being ratable. You my be an engineer who can design and build at an extremely high level but if you are not ratable, you suck. (Being ratable means you spend money on budget and on time. This is very important for schedule driven projects. Also this translates into the quarterly reporting so it very important to the executives and share holders).
Posted on 7/20/11 at 11:09 pm to barry
I think Lutz was involved in building some incredibly crappy cars at Ford & Chrysler.
Posted on 7/20/11 at 11:15 pm to GumboPot
I am an "engineer" but won't lie, my job is really project management. Yes we build models in some engineering software, but at the end of the day my job is budgets, planning, and managing contractors.
I'm getting my MBA at the moment and hope to understand more of the business side of things. Business is my interest, but an undergrad in engineering is what pays. That's what led to the strategy of graduating in engineering and letting my employer pay for the MBA.
I'm getting my MBA at the moment and hope to understand more of the business side of things. Business is my interest, but an undergrad in engineering is what pays. That's what led to the strategy of graduating in engineering and letting my employer pay for the MBA.
This post was edited on 7/20/11 at 11:16 pm
Posted on 7/21/11 at 8:56 am to GumboPot
quote:
I work in the O&G industry and folks that are in executive positions with MBAs still characterize themselves as engineers.
yea when they say MBA they mean finance guys with MBA's. The O&G is still a lot of engineers at the upper management level. Its an interesting discussion, not that their is a right answer.
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