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Christopher Nolan: The Cycle of Success, Appeal and Backlash
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:36 am
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:36 am
So this was posted in a thread this morning:
And I have seen comments like this posted in:
1) The Top 100 Thread Because the Top 4 movies include 3 Nolan films.
2) The Inception Thread - To the likes of "The movie is too confusing, but Nolan lovers love it anyway" - Not a direct quote
3) The 2000s Bracket - See above, among other quotes.
It seems, as Baloo said in the thread, the Nolan backlash is picking up steam. That he is so successful now that people dislike him, or instantly write off his fans or anything he creates.
#1 - I don't get his argument and never have. Now, if Nolan were changing his film making style to something more popular (rather than creating his own mark) then I might agree. I hate when this argument is used, but do find it accurate in other cases.
I'll say that, in music, it happens more than film, but most accusations of it are unwarranted. But two that come to mind immediately are Metallica and Incubus. Some may disagree, but in my estimation, they sold out. Sure it became faddish to dislike them, but I think the dislike was warranted.
#2 - What do people who like Nolan films only because they are Nolan films have to gain?
#3 - Can the current Nolan-haters really disagree that he doesn't make stellar films. On what grounds? Saying that the acting in the Illusionist is better than the Prestige is somewhat laughable. I like Rufus Sewell as much as the next guy, but great actor he is not.
So let's hash it out, get it on the table...
Edit: Pulled another quote from the Top 100 Thread:
And even though the person admits to liking Nolan, I'd still like to know how you "get off his nuts" if all Nolan does is make good film? Should we dislike his films simply because we like them too much?
quote:
I have a feeling the only reason most people cream over The Prestige is because it was directed by Nolan.
And I have seen comments like this posted in:
1) The Top 100 Thread Because the Top 4 movies include 3 Nolan films.
2) The Inception Thread - To the likes of "The movie is too confusing, but Nolan lovers love it anyway" - Not a direct quote
3) The 2000s Bracket - See above, among other quotes.
It seems, as Baloo said in the thread, the Nolan backlash is picking up steam. That he is so successful now that people dislike him, or instantly write off his fans or anything he creates.
#1 - I don't get his argument and never have. Now, if Nolan were changing his film making style to something more popular (rather than creating his own mark) then I might agree. I hate when this argument is used, but do find it accurate in other cases.
I'll say that, in music, it happens more than film, but most accusations of it are unwarranted. But two that come to mind immediately are Metallica and Incubus. Some may disagree, but in my estimation, they sold out. Sure it became faddish to dislike them, but I think the dislike was warranted.
#2 - What do people who like Nolan films only because they are Nolan films have to gain?
#3 - Can the current Nolan-haters really disagree that he doesn't make stellar films. On what grounds? Saying that the acting in the Illusionist is better than the Prestige is somewhat laughable. I like Rufus Sewell as much as the next guy, but great actor he is not.
So let's hash it out, get it on the table...
Edit: Pulled another quote from the Top 100 Thread:
quote:
also, Nolan is my second favorite director but 3 selections in the top ten is overkill. Get off his nuts for christ sake!
And even though the person admits to liking Nolan, I'd still like to know how you "get off his nuts" if all Nolan does is make good film? Should we dislike his films simply because we like them too much?
This post was edited on 8/9/10 at 11:00 am
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:38 am to Freauxzen
Nolan's films are great.
Anyone who says otherwise is not worthy of breathing the same air.
Anyone who says otherwise is not worthy of breathing the same air.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:40 am to Lacour
Nolan is the best director out there right now. Even his worst films are better than most current movies.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:41 am to Freauxzen
I like Nolan. A lot. But his style is minimalistic, almost cold in its presentation. And while I enjoy that no frills matter-of-factness, I could see how some people might be put off by it. But to hate on him for all of his success doesn't make sense. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Unless those players are George Lucas or Shia Lebouef. Then I will allow it.
This post was edited on 8/9/10 at 10:42 am
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:41 am to Lacour
Thank you for quoting me from another thread. Did I say he makes bad films, no. I simply stated, that I HAVE A FEELING people cream over The Prestige is because it's directed by Nolan. For the record Memento and Inception are some of my favorite movies of all time.
That isn't a backlash statement in the slightest.
That isn't a backlash statement in the slightest.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:41 am to Freauxzen
Nolan is great but here it can be a little much...
Memento number 1?? I mean its good..
quote:
The Top 100 Thread Because the Top 4 movies include 3 Nolan films.
Memento number 1?? I mean its good..
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:42 am to Freauxzen
Wow, we were both thinking the same thing and starting two different types of threads to address that same comment.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:44 am to Freauxzen
I don't think he made 5 of the 10 best films of the last decade, but he is certainly an amazing director and I love all of his work. He is able to make intellectually stimulating films and never caters to the lowest common denominator, which is more than I can say for most directors.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:45 am to Freauxzen
I'll say what I said earlier about him: Nolan isn't perfect, but right now, I think he is clearly one of the best in the business. He is everything M. Night Shyamalan was SUPPOSED to be.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:45 am to Freauxzen
Nolan is great but 2-3 threads a day telling everyone how great he is is a little annoying.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:45 am to Freauxzen
quote:
But two that come to mind immediately are Metallica and Incubus. Some may disagree, but in my estimation, they sold out. Sure it became faddish to dislike them, but I think the dislike was warranted.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:46 am to MisterFaster
quote:
Thank you for quoting me from another thread.
It was just the most recent quote. As I said after that, we have seen a lot of these quotes.
quote:
simply stated, that I HAVE A FEELING people cream over The Prestige is because it's directed by Nolan.
I think it's still Nolan's most complete film. You saw the early workings of the style he used in Dark Knight and Inception. You saw the same themes that came from Inception and Memento. It was well-layered, well designed, well-acted and finished as a nice bend on a particular genre that was rather slight, but effective.
quote:
That isn't a backlash statement in the slightest.
But the rest of your post is:
quote:
Jack Matthews summed it up best when he wrote this review, "By describing the structure of a great trick in a movie about a great trick, The Prestige makes a promise it can't keep. Its third act is about as convincing as a photo of a cow jumping over the moon. "
I don't even see how you can compare the far superior acting and line up in The Illusionist to the laughable characters in The Prestige.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:47 am to ipodking
Link to these 2-3 threads that happened yesterday
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:47 am to Tiger JJ
quote:
I know you like Inucubus Jersey, but damn, I didn't think anything after Make Yourself was anywhere near comparable to said album, S.C.I.E.N.C.E and the early EP's.
This post was edited on 8/9/10 at 10:48 am
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:49 am to Volvagia
quote:
Link to these 2-3 threads that happened yesterday
Except that the only threads created about Nolan recently, have to do with his potential movies, and a couple of misinformed "Nolan is awesome" threads that went nowhere.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:52 am to MisterFaster
quote:
I simply stated, that I HAVE A FEELING people cream over The Prestige is because it's directed by Nol
Why? The Prestige is a great movie. I didn't even realize it was Nolan's movie when I watched it, and I loved it.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:53 am to Freauxzen
quote:
I know you like Inucubus Jersey, but damn, I didn't think anything after Make Yourself was anywhere near comparable to said album, S.C.I.E.N.C.E and the early EP's.
The song "Love Hurts" is when I finally came to terms with the fact that the Incubus I liked was officially dead. I probably should have figured that out after the Crow Left of the Murder CD though.
Posted on 8/9/10 at 10:54 am to Freauxzen
quote:
I simply stated, that I HAVE A FEELING people cream over The Prestige is because it's directed by Nolan.
quote:
#2 - What do people who like Nolan films only because they are Nolan films have to gain?
Posted on 8/9/10 at 11:01 am to Shiftyplus1
Well, there will always be backlash. Some people just like being out of step with the critical consensus. Or, if you only sort of like a guy, but constantly hear how great he is, it tends to harden your position against his work (which is similar to how I feel about PT Anderson – I don’t HATE his movies, well except Magnolia, I just don’t think they are all that great, and by arguing against his genius, I come off as more PTA as I probably really am in real life).
I will say it’s “safe” to praise Nolan, but I do vehemently disagree that people on this board praise anything Nolan does just because he did it. This board, as a rule, has shown a pretty good ability to rip on anyone for anything. We don’t give free passes. Except to Kurosawa. You say something bad about him, Freaux will hunt you down and gut you like a fish.
I just think it’s a natural reaction to being told how great a guy is over and over. I happen to agree that Nolan is brilliant and I voted Memento #1, but I can see how someone could just resent his critical AND commercial success. That’s a tough trick to pull.
And I absolutely agree that Nolan films can be somewhat cold. He’s comparable to Hitchcock in that regard. He is not an “actor’s director”, which is ironic, given that he coaxed such a performance from Heath Ledger.
Oh, and completely unrelated – I think it’s funny that the backlash against Metallica really picked up steam with St. Anger, which is an album that sounds closer to Kill Em All than anything they have ever done. Of course their recent stuff isn’t as good, they are no longer 25. Rock n roll, particularly punk and heavy metal, is a young man’s medium. I think their late period stuff is good if graded on the Rolling Stones curve.
I will say it’s “safe” to praise Nolan, but I do vehemently disagree that people on this board praise anything Nolan does just because he did it. This board, as a rule, has shown a pretty good ability to rip on anyone for anything. We don’t give free passes. Except to Kurosawa. You say something bad about him, Freaux will hunt you down and gut you like a fish.
I just think it’s a natural reaction to being told how great a guy is over and over. I happen to agree that Nolan is brilliant and I voted Memento #1, but I can see how someone could just resent his critical AND commercial success. That’s a tough trick to pull.
And I absolutely agree that Nolan films can be somewhat cold. He’s comparable to Hitchcock in that regard. He is not an “actor’s director”, which is ironic, given that he coaxed such a performance from Heath Ledger.
Oh, and completely unrelated – I think it’s funny that the backlash against Metallica really picked up steam with St. Anger, which is an album that sounds closer to Kill Em All than anything they have ever done. Of course their recent stuff isn’t as good, they are no longer 25. Rock n roll, particularly punk and heavy metal, is a young man’s medium. I think their late period stuff is good if graded on the Rolling Stones curve.
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