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This “Peace Plan” Rewards Bad Behavior, Which is Exactly How We Got Here to Begin With
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:39 am
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:39 am
Obama and NATO are as responsible for Russia’s 2022 invasion as anyone. They failed to properly counter Russian aggression in 2014 and Putin is only going to take advantage of the West. Again.
Rubio is already going out of his way explaining the proposal. I always said he was one of the smartest cabinet members in this administration, but this “plan” shows he is kowtowing with no independent analysis. Now he’s claiming “this is just the starting point.”
No peace plan can ever succeed without Ukraine’s endorsement. And I wouldn’t even concede this is a reasonable starting point if I was Z.
Rubio is already going out of his way explaining the proposal. I always said he was one of the smartest cabinet members in this administration, but this “plan” shows he is kowtowing with no independent analysis. Now he’s claiming “this is just the starting point.”
No peace plan can ever succeed without Ukraine’s endorsement. And I wouldn’t even concede this is a reasonable starting point if I was Z.
This post was edited on 11/23/25 at 10:40 am
19
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:41 am to RFK
quote:
This “Peace Plan” Rewards Bad Behavior,
BTW: Progressive politics do the exact same thing.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:42 am to RFK
From what negotiations I have had in in my lifetime most began with two extremes. Maybe just me I suppose.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:44 am to RFK
Which is Exactly How We Got Here to Begin With
Odd how you'll toss your messiah under the bus if that what it takes to also throw shade on Trump.
No cow is too sacred, huh?
Odd how you'll toss your messiah under the bus if that what it takes to also throw shade on Trump.
No cow is too sacred, huh?
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:44 am to goatmilker
Trump was willing to show strength with Iran and it paid off.
The fact he cowers to Russia is embarrassing, and indicates something else is afoot. That’s my take, anyway.
The fact he cowers to Russia is embarrassing, and indicates something else is afoot. That’s my take, anyway.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:45 am to RFK
Plan almost sounds like the scene in Wall Street when Bud goes into a meeting for Blue Star and realizes that Gecko is putting together a deal to gut the company.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:45 am to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:I have no political messiah, unlike you.
Odd how you'll toss your messiah under the bus if that what it takes to also throw shade on Trump.
No cow is too sacred, huh?
Cults of personality blind voters and are responsible for the gridlock in politics. Both sides are guilty of it.
This post was edited on 11/23/25 at 10:47 am
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:47 am to RFK
quote:
They failed to properly counter Russian aggression in 2014
Yes, but don't forget that Ukraine had seven years to act like Poland and build their defenses up. And before you blame Obama too much, place plenty of blame at the feet of Germany for spending time worrying about shutting down nuke plants and going carbon neutral, while expecting the US to deal with anything in their backyard.
quote:
I wouldn’t even concede this is a reasonable starting point if I was Z
How many more of your men can you kill? Draft women to take trenches, that's the next step.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:48 am to RFK
Wtf would you put out for a plan?
It's funny you critique this plan... but rebut not a SINGLE POINT within it.
You wanna armchair this, do it right.
It's funny you critique this plan... but rebut not a SINGLE POINT within it.
You wanna armchair this, do it right.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:50 am to RFK
quote:
They failed to properly counter Russian aggression in 2014
Uh, the aggressor in 2014 wasn’t who you think it was.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:52 am to RFK
quote:
I have no political messiah, unlike you.
I think someone needs to practice their praise song a bit more.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:55 am to RFK
quote:
RFK
Trump was willing to show strength with Iran and it paid off.
The fact he cowers to Russia is embarrassing, and indicates something else is afoot. That’s my take, anyway.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:57 am to SallysHuman
quote:
You wanna armchair this, do it right.
I fully support this message!
Posted on 11/23/25 at 10:57 am to goatmilker
quote:
From what negotiations I have had in in my lifetime most began with two extremes.
In that case, the starting position should be total Russian withdrawal and reparations for the damage they did and the lives they cost Ukraine. If they are concerned about the Russian minorities living in Ukraine, they can take them back. They were mostly part of Stalin's Russification campaign to start with.
The Baltics are aggressively de-Russifying.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 11:00 am to RFK
Trump’s deference to Putin and Russia has been odd and suspicious from Day One.
Regardless of what happened during the Obama, Biden or W administration,
Putin should not be rewarded for naked aggression and barbarism visited upon Ukrainian civilians, including the kidnapping of children.
Regardless of what happened during the Obama, Biden or W administration,
Putin should not be rewarded for naked aggression and barbarism visited upon Ukrainian civilians, including the kidnapping of children.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 11:03 am to SallysHuman
quote:I rebut all of it. That should be clear from my OP.
It's funny you critique this plan... but rebut not a SINGLE POINT within it. You wanna armchair this, do it right.
ANY Secretary of State operating objectively would demand, at a minimum:
1. Russia withdraws to 1991 borders (including Crimea).
2. Ukraine receives $500B+ reparations paid solely from seized Russian assets and future energy revenues.
3. Ukraine gets permanent Article 5-equivalent defense pact with US/UK/France/Germany/Poland the day Russia leaves (but no NATO membership for 10 years.)
4. All Russian war criminals prosecuted by international tribunal; no immunity, no amnesties.
5. Russia demilitarizes 300 km from Ukraine’s border and is capped at pre-2022 force levels.
This should be the starting point.
Rubio needs to read Trump’s Art of the Deal, apparently.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 11:08 am to VOR
quote:Well isn't that convenient?
Regardless of what happened during the Obama, Biden or W administration,
quote:
Trump’s deference to Putin and Russia has been odd and suspicious from Day One.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 11:09 am to RFK
quote:
ANY Secretary of State operating objectively would demand, at a minimum:
1. Russia withdraws to 1991 borders (including Crimea).
2. Ukraine receives $500B+ reparations paid solely from seized Russian assets and future energy revenues.
3. Ukraine gets permanent Article 5-equivalent defense pact with US/UK/France/Germany/Poland the day Russia leaves (but no NATO membership for 10 years.)
4. All Russian war criminals prosecuted by international tribunal; no immunity, no amnesties.
5. Russia demilitarizes 300 km from Ukraine’s border and is capped at pre-2022 force levels.
This should be the starting point.
Holy shite.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 11:13 am to RFK
quote:and the lack of a Peace Plan rewards bad behavior.
This “Peace Plan” Rewards Bad Behavior
Choose the Pit, or succumb to the Pendulum.
Either carries the same outcome.
Posted on 11/23/25 at 11:15 am to NC_Tigah
quote:Is that Milton?
Choose the Pit, or succumb to the Pendulum. Either carries the same outcome.
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