How much better off we would all be if the South had been permitted to secede

We'd have the same problems, only magnified b/c there wouldn't have been as big a Northern migration

MS would probably be majority black now

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How much better off we would all be if the South had been permitted to secede

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I wonder if we'd be a member of the Commonwealth of Nations given our past status as a colony and the heavy Anglophilia in places like Virginia, South Carolina and Georgia. 90 years separate SC's secession and the London Declaration, which allowed republics to join the Commonwealth.

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Slavery was on the way out in the west, and everyone knows that. The longer term consequences have been that there is effectively no check on the powers of the federal government; the states are servile to the feds now, an inversion of how this country came to be. The atrocities and perversions of the progressive era (early 20th century to present) could have been turned back.

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Slavery was definitely going to end regardless of the Civil War.

The question is do you think the cultural differences between the South and the North are so different there is no way to coexist as a nation? If so what are the cultural differences that make the North and South incompatible?

I live in the KC area and it's a true mix of Midwest and South but I would say the South has deeper generational roots in Missouri than the Midwest/North Yankees do.

The Civil War was the last best chance to stop a tyrannical federal government and it’s leader Gay Abe.

Missouri was the frontier of the Old South

Texas was the Mexico

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Had it played out like that, the black dysphoria from the Old South into the West would have made the Trail of Tears look like a walk in the park And New Mexico Lobos would have more Nattys than bama and LSU combined, and Old Gold-rich California and the Mormons would have built a wall the had the Chinese to expolit

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That’s a bold statement

I can’t say that I disagree

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Missouri was the frontier of the Old South

Texas was the Mexico

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The precursor to what would morph into the Civil War was being fought along the Missouri/Kansas border in the mid 1850's. In my opinion where the South really fricked up was allowing the North to flood Missouri with newly arrived German immigrants who were willing to fight for the North with the hopes of being rewarded for their sacrifice.

What used to be called Little Dixie (ran from KC along the Missouri River to just north of St Louis) was primarily settlers from the south farming hemp and some tobacco and they brought their slave labor with them to Missouri. When the Civil War ended a lot of those farmers in the Little Dixie region of Missouri lost everything. Now when you drive I-70 from KC to St Louis there is a large German ancestral influence in Little Dixie region, particularly in Central Missouri where the wine region is located.

We’d be infinitely worse. The United States would’ve been a whole Europe of countries.

With the power vacuum you’d undoubtedly see Japan and Germany as the two major superpowers in the world. The Soviet Union wouldn’t have been able to defeat the Nazis without the US lend lease program and the opening of a second front in France. There would’ve been no one to slow down Japan taking all of Southeast Asia and the Pacific.

Japan and Germany likely end up taking down the Soviet Union and dividing the territory.

I love this country. I do not agree.