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Started By
Message
Fighter pilots breakdown latest NTSB findings on DCA midair collision
Posted on 8/5/25 at 10:45 am
Posted on 8/5/25 at 10:45 am
Went over CVR from both aircraft. Big takeaways
- already known, but there was a 80 to 100 ft difference between the barometric altimeter and the altitude registered by the FDR
- everything with the Blackhawk indicated it was a typical check ride, the female pilot who was training made some mistakes but she wasn't argumentative with the training pilot, made corrections immediately
- training pilot was the one that indicated he had the traffic in sight, and they say in that environment, the co-pilot trusts him because her responsibility in that moment is flying the helicopter
- there was never any indication from DCA ATC that the plane they were asking them to be aware of was on an alternative approach from the rest of the traffic, it showed up on the CRJ transcript but the Blackhawk never heard it
But long and short of it, this training route was a disaster waiting to happen, it should have been shut down a long time ago.
7
Posted on 8/5/25 at 10:49 am to sicboy
quote:true, but she (captain) was pretty "non-chalant" with the instructor (chief warrant officer) when he was asking her to drop altitude. Felt like a "yea, you're the instructor, but I'm a captain".
but she wasn't argumentative with the training pilot,
another perspective, you tube , Ward Carroll (F14 RIO)
LINK
quote:this also very true
But long and short of it, this training route was a disaster waiting to happen, it should have been shut down a long time ago.
This post was edited on 8/5/25 at 10:51 am
Posted on 8/5/25 at 10:53 am to sicboy
As an aside, these two have some great content when it comes to military/civilian aviation. They’re really thorough when reviewing accident report.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 10:54 am to Dadren
I really like when Wombat is on. He can get a little feisty 
Posted on 8/5/25 at 10:55 am to sicboy
quote:
I really like when Wombat is on. He can get a little feisty
Man I love when they get him going about Navy leadership and retention, it’s fantastic.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:02 am to Dadren
quote:
Man I love when they get him going about Navy leadership and retention, it’s fantastic
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:09 am to sicboy
That's an excellent monologue that is directly translatable to some big corporate structure issues.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:13 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
At the end of the video in the OP, I'm reminded again, if EVERYTHING goes according to plan, everyone does what they are supposed to do, in line with the 33 approach, there is 100 ft, AT BEST, of separation between the plane and the chopper.
Insane.
Insane.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:16 am to sicboy
If they're flying IFR then do in daytime wearing a hood so all you see are instruments
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:17 am to TechBullDawg
It was a specific night vision goggles check ride. Doubt you can do that during the day.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:21 am to sicboy
Training pilot should have called check ride over as soon as Lobach gave him attitude and didn't correct course.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:25 am to redstick13
quote:
as soon as Lobach gave him attitude
Where does this actually come from? They addressed that in the video, per the VCR transcript, at no point did she have attitude with the pilot.
They also addressed this misconception that there is a lot of posturing and pulling rank in that environment. Absolutely not. Everyone knows who's in charge, and they listen to that person.
This post was edited on 8/5/25 at 11:32 am
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:25 am to sicboy
quote:
At the end of the video in the OP, I'm reminded again, if EVERYTHING goes according to plan, everyone does what they are supposed to do, in line with the 33 approach, there is 100 ft, AT BEST, of separation between the plane and the chopper.
I'm guessing these helicopters fly down the river to avoid noise in the neighborhoods or if they go down they go into water? Otherwise, stay the hell out of the way of commercial air traffic. Fly over the city in a different direction.
Posted on 8/5/25 at 11:48 am to evil cockroach
quote:
true, but she (captain) was pretty "non-chalant" with the instructor (chief warrant officer) when he was asking her to drop altitude. Felt like a "yea, you're the instructor, but I'm a captain".
They work together and are probably good acquaintances if not friends. This is very common in military aviation to get a check ride from someone you’re very familiar with. So being non chalant is a non factor in this situation
Posted on 8/5/25 at 12:30 pm to sicboy
Mover is a northshore baw
Wonder if he posts here
Wonder if he posts here
Posted on 8/5/25 at 12:44 pm to sicboy
It was ruled flying while woman. Tragic. Same as the Endeavor Air CRJ900 flip in Toronto a month later.
This post was edited on 8/5/25 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 8/5/25 at 6:38 pm to JAXTiger16
quote:when your instructor is giving you a command to drop altitude because you’re clearly above altitude limits near a major airport with civilian jets landing and taking off and your response is “yea, okayyyy” , that seems dangerous
They work together and are probably good acquaintances if not friends. This is very common in military aviation to get a check ride from someone you’re very familiar with. So being non chalant is a non factor in this situation
Posted on 8/5/25 at 7:44 pm to sicboy
quote:
already known, but there was a 80 to 100 ft difference between the barometric altimeter and the altitude registered by the FDR
My issue here is they were at 200-300ft. How would you not know this? They were 30% higher than they thought and didn’t know? If they were 2100 ft instead of 2000 or 10,100 instead of 10,000 I get it.
But I don’t see how when you are flying in a busy city past a busy airport you don’t know your altitude is 30% off in a very important location.
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