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The IDF was overrated and failed on October 7.

Posted on 6/2/25 at 11:29 am
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
54991 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 11:29 am
Commentary Magazine had a great piece on how Israel failed its people on October 7. It is long and thorough so I'm going to do something a little bit different and cover different points in several posts as I think it will be more convenient for y'all.

What is amazing is how overrated, yes, overrated, the IDF was. Actually, poorly trained. It relied on a technological wall that will eerily remind you of the Maginot line. A nice excerpt.

Commentary Magazine

quote:

The holiday absence of more than half the standing force on October 7 was not unique to the Gaza border region. It turns out to have been standard procedure for the military throughout Israel, with the air force stripped down by an even greater proportion....

The same complacency, along with what many older former IDF officers see as general decline in professionalism, can be seen in the way that almost all of the IDF installations in the Gaza envelope had abandoned the standard Western military practice of holding a “stand-to” before sunrise. During the daily stand-to at a military base or camp, soldiers take up defensive positions as if expecting an enemy attack.... The procedure is theoretically required at dawn on all IDF bases, and had it been followed on October 7, the day might have gone very differently. It would have made a particular difference at bases such as Nahal Oz, which had had no sentries on gate duty that morning, and whose complement of 90 combat soldiers did not have time to get their machine guns out of a locked armory when Hamas attacked...

Another shocking dereliction at Nahal Oz, at least for anyone used to American military practice, was that the young female soldiers monitoring the surveillance systems were unarmed and had no combat training. During the War on Terror, I visited or stayed at dozens of U.S. and allied military bases in Iraq and Afghanistan, and in all those installations, even those deep within the “Green Zones” of Baghdad and Kabul, almost everyone, male or female, from generals to radio repairmen, carried a sidearm.

When I asked a young Israeli who had recently served as an intelligence officer at a nearby base about the presence of unarmed soldiers on a post so close to Gaza, he told me that during his year on the border he had never worn the pistol he had been issued, adding that “it wouldn’t have made any difference anyway.” He then explained that he didn’t really know how to use it, having had only a few hours on the range during his training: “Some [conscripts] don’t get any training on weapons, if you’re ill that day, then you can be deployed without ever having fired a weapon.”

apparently in the 21st-century IDF, the great majority of citizen soldiers receive minimal training in weapons handling or other basic combat skills. It is the very opposite of the approach taken by the U.S. Marine Corps, with its doctrine of “every Marine a rifleman”... The potential cost of not bothering to train noncombat troops was made all too clear on October 7.2

Successive Israeli defense ministers and chiefs of defense staff from 2002 onward cut expenditure on the IDF’s ground capabilities, underfunding training, maintenance, transport capacity, and combat logistics, in the belief that the country could rely on air force jets, intelligence agencies and special forces to keep its enemies at bay and protect its citizenry. In 2015, it gave an entire squadron of its helicopter gunships to Jordan... The belief that substantial conventional ground forces were no longer that necessary underlay the cutting of compulsory national service from three years to just over two and a half and also a new policy of ending reservist duty at age 40 instead of 54, even though this deprived the IDF of a great many combat-experienced troops.

The Kibbutz civilian-security teams, supervised by the IDF, were also allowed to deteriorate in the years before October 7. Many had minimal training. It did not help that the IDF, more concerned about weapons thefts than readiness, ruled that the squads had to keep all their rifles and ammunition in locked armories. This meant that on October 7, many of the security squads were not able to get their weapons in time to confront Hamas attackers—who knew not just the armories’ locations but which residents held keys for them. (Fortunately, at Kibbutz Yad Mordechai, but only there, the security coordinator not only disregarded the IDF’s order to store all weapons centrally but had drilled his team, for whom he had purchased modern helmets, body armor, and gunsights for their rifles. They were able to drive the attackers off and save their fellow residents.)

The neglect of ground forces combined with complacency about the Hamas threat had many dire consequences on October 7. Some of the tanks that should have protected the attacked army bases had had their .50 caliber machine guns removed for maintenance or because of fear that they might be stolen. Armored vehicles were not kept fully fueled: The tank that stopped at the Nova festival and provided shelter for some of the partygoers did so because it had run out of gas. A shortage of working jeeps meant that some IDF outposts could only send out foot patrols. Several of the cameras on the aerostat balloons that were a key part of Gaza border surveillance had been out of order for some time.

A retired reservist colonel told me that, after 2003, his infantry battalion engaged in just one whole-unit exercise in the next decade.... Even regular army combat battalions no longer train sufficiently to be combat-ready.


However, one group did have its act together: The police who completely ignored IDF.

quote:

As awful as things were, they could have been worse. It was fortunate that, unlike the army, the often maligned Israel Police Service not only had a contingency plan for a large-scale Hamas attack, but practiced dealing with one, holding one such exercise in September 2023. As a result, the Hamas attacks on the towns of Netivot and Sderot were contained by 8 a.m. Moreover, if the Israel Police had not prevailed in three little-known battles—at the Reim junction, the Black Arrow Monument, and the Yad Mordechai junction—then large convoys of Hamas pick-up trucks could have headed east and north. Nothing stood between them and the civilian populations of Haifa, Tel Aviv, and Jerusalem. Had even a few pick-up trucks reached those cities and wrought just the limited slaughter achieved in Sderot and Ofakim, the impact would have been enormous. A senior commander I spoke to believes it would likely have inspired copycat attacks on Israeli communities in the West Bank, uprisings in Israel’s majority-Arab cities and neighborhoods along the lines of the upheaval in May 2021, and, deadliest of all, a massive ground invasion of the north by Hezbollah.
Posted by LSUbest
Coastal Plain
Member since Aug 2007
13330 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 11:34 am to
I wonder how the US Army is training non combat soldiers.
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
23253 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 11:34 am to
Jews take their holidays seriously and they have a lot of them. It is easy for terrorists to know what days the IDF and security will be thin.
Posted by Chief One Word
Eastern Washington State
Member since Mar 2018
4242 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 11:35 am to
Don't we give Isreal billions or who funded this crap wall and security measures.
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
54991 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 11:38 am to
Used to be crap training for non-combat but I think after 9/11 they tightened up on that a little.

However, Israel has small numbers and is surrounded by enemies. Hence the wonder of why it did not adopt the Marine Corps model.

Also a gun control mentality infested its elites to where they wouldn't even trust soldiers with their own weapons.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
55704 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 11:41 am to
quote:

What is amazing is how overrated, yes, overrated, the IDF was.


They took their eye off the ball and got complacent. They paid for that and have addressed it.
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
54991 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 11:42 am to
Nothing teaches like combat.
Posted by slidingstop
Member since Jan 2025
703 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 11:43 am to
quote:

It relied on a technological wall that will eerily remind you of the Maginot line


sounds similar to the USs' failure when allowing terrorists to fly passenger planes into the Twin Towers killing thousands.

I'm all for soul searching and criticizing when something like 10/7 or 9/11 happens. But if an entity wants to commit harm, they will usually find a way. I think we delude ourselves thinking we can protect ourselves for harm in all its forms. We can't.
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
54991 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 11:52 am to
Apparently they still haven't learned. The author put this in a footnote:

quote:

2 Apparently, the IDF has still not learned its lesson with regard to giving ordinary conscripts basic military training sufficient to keep them alive in case of a surprise attack. A retired lieutenant colonel told me that his recently conscripted daughter, currently assigned to guard duty at one of the abandoned kibbutzim in the Gaza envelope, was sent there having fired just 15 rounds from an M16 during her training. (Fortunately, he assured me, she is a crack shot, having spent a great deal of time with him on the range.)
Posted by idlewatcher
Planet Arium
Member since Jan 2012
87078 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

I'm all for soul searching and criticizing when something like 10/7 or 9/11 happens. But if an entity wants to commit harm, they will usually find a way. I think we delude ourselves thinking we can protect ourselves for harm in all its forms. We can't.



Agreed. Same with terrorist attacks. A determined terrorist will find a way - just like the jackhole from Boulder yesterday.
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
5299 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 12:23 pm to
quote:

Jews take their holidays seriously and they have a lot of them. It is easy for terrorists to know what days the IDF and security will be thin.


Ummm...if YOU come up with that reasoning, don't you think the IDF would have also?
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
60058 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 12:25 pm to
Yeah, it was an odd comment. Also, a significant portion of the Israeli population is secular. It’s not as if 80% of active-duty troops and just packing it in on a random religious holiday.
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
54991 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 1:03 pm to
bullshite.


They ignored basic military protocols and training before October 7. The Arabs scouted d them thoroughly. The instituted stupid procedures regarding weapons. They had a shortage of trucks to move troops.

911 was a truly ingenious way of attacking.
Posted by slidingstop
Member since Jan 2025
703 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

911 was a truly ingenious way of attacking.


yes. and incredibly simplistic. Just like parasailing over all the hitech defenses while Israel had fallen into complacency. But my point is that if someone wants to do you harm, they will eventually find a way.


quote:

They ignored basic military protocols and training before October 7. The Arabs scouted d them thoroughly. The instituted stupid procedures regarding weapons. They had a shortage of trucks to move troops.



sounds like the US with our tragic border policy of the last four years along with our "woke" military planning and emphasis. Its frightening to think of what may happen in this country if the terrorists like AQ and the Taliban are patient enough to exploit our negligence and naivete. II believe it will eventually happen here.
Posted by LARancher1991
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2015
1488 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 1:50 pm to
So by this logic the US military is overrated and failed on 9/11, Boston marathon bombing, and New Orleans terror attack?
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
78435 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 1:53 pm to
No way Powerclown says the Jews allowed this all to happen and knew it was coming on purpose to unleash total genocide on the peace loving Palestinian populace.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
165643 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 1:57 pm to
quote:

No way Powerclown says the Jews allowed this all to happen and knew it was coming on purpose to unleash total genocide on the peace loving Palestinian populace.

Israeli intelligence knew about 911 and didn't warn the United States because they knew the attack would further their interests

They don't deserve the benefit of a doubt on this issue. They very well could have allowed October 7th to happen. They even had packaged made up stories on October 7th about events that didn't happen to generate more outrage. They simply can't be trusted and everything they say should be investigated.
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
47484 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 1:59 pm to
quote:

I wonder how the US Army is training non combat soldiers.

Well, I’m sure they were training them to use proper pronouns, but I’d bet they are now being trained to kill the enemy.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
137060 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 1:59 pm to
The IDF has been overrated for the last 20 years. They’re nowhere near the caliber of their forefathers of the 60s and 70s
Posted by LARancher1991
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2015
1488 posts
Posted on 6/2/25 at 1:59 pm to
Source?
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