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Message
Chibson Guitars
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:01 pm
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:01 pm
What are y’all thought about chibson guitars? I see mix opinions on other music forums I frequent.
I don’t need another guitar but this one speaks to me for some reason. He is asking $250.
I do appreciate it when people straight up tell you it’s a chibson.
I don’t need another guitar but this one speaks to me for some reason. He is asking $250.
I do appreciate it when people straight up tell you it’s a chibson.
1
Posted on 5/19/25 at 5:45 pm to BogeyTX
I do not take the Chinese retail forgeries in for repairs or upgrades at my shop. Mainly because I won't risk the legal ramifications for me or my business by even temporarily possessing counterfeit (illegal) guitars.
But also, in my experience with them, the lion's share of those forgeries are simply not good guitars, They are built in fly-by-night sweatshops, not legit guitar factories. And the products very, very often have serious structural deficiencies that will cost more to fix than the guitars are worth.
Problems like incorrect neck-set angles, poorly positioned bridges that won't intonate properly, horrid fretwork and nutwork ... all that stuff contribute to a guitar you simply can't set up correctly without intensive and costly TLC. Which means the guitar is for all intents and purposes either a money pit or expensive wall art.
There are too many good quality, legal and LEGIT guitars in the marketplace at similar price points to have to resort to the Chinese forgeries. My advice is to avoid them.
But also, in my experience with them, the lion's share of those forgeries are simply not good guitars, They are built in fly-by-night sweatshops, not legit guitar factories. And the products very, very often have serious structural deficiencies that will cost more to fix than the guitars are worth.
Problems like incorrect neck-set angles, poorly positioned bridges that won't intonate properly, horrid fretwork and nutwork ... all that stuff contribute to a guitar you simply can't set up correctly without intensive and costly TLC. Which means the guitar is for all intents and purposes either a money pit or expensive wall art.
There are too many good quality, legal and LEGIT guitars in the marketplace at similar price points to have to resort to the Chinese forgeries. My advice is to avoid them.
Posted on 5/19/25 at 6:13 pm to TheFretShack
You explained it well and convinced me to pass on it. Although cheap, my wallet still thanks you.
Posted on 5/19/25 at 7:21 pm to BogeyTX
Posted on 5/19/25 at 8:57 pm to TheFretShack
quote:
There are too many good quality, legal and LEGIT guitars in the marketplace at similar price points to have to resort to the Chinese forgeries.
So true, and Gibson makes many of them under the Epiphone name. I am amazed by the Inspired by Gibson line.
Posted on 5/20/25 at 8:39 am to TheFretShack
quote:
I do not take the Chinese retail forgeries in for repairs or upgrades at my shop. Mainly because I won't risk the legal ramifications for me or my business by even temporarily possessing counterfeit (illegal) guitars.
What liability would you have? You are a repair shop. It is not your responsibility to ensure that the items you repair are legitimate any more than it is a tailor's job to ensure the clothes he alters are legitimate.
If you were selling them, that is different, but if you are not the owner of the items, you have zero criminal or civil liability.
Posted on 5/20/25 at 10:28 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
What liability would you have? You are a repair shop.
Fretshack doesn't need to work on those, and he doesn't have to.
You can work on some of these guitars and get them playing great today, pick it up again next week and it's all screwed up again.
A couple of months ago, I ran into what seemed like a great deal on a Fender custom shop Merle Haggard signature Telecaster.
Everything looked to be on the up and up except for the grain of the neck at the joint(those are set neck guitars).
It just didn't look like anything Fender custom would have done.
I went home and ran the serial numbers. Fake as hell. It looked convincing except for that 1 thing.
Posted on 5/20/25 at 10:51 am to auggie
quote:
Fretshack doesn't need to work on those, and he doesn't have to.
But he said he didn't do it for legal reasons. Not because he just chooses not to.
Posted on 5/20/25 at 11:00 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
But he said he didn't do it for legal reasons. Not because he just chooses not to.
He's trying to be diplomatic.
Posted on 5/20/25 at 12:23 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
If you were selling them, that is different, but if you are not the owner of the items, you have zero criminal or civil liability.
If you are a trademark or IP attorney by trade, thanks for your legal advice.
But refusing to possess known counterfeit guitars - for whatever reason - keeps me at ZERO risk of having to defend myself or my business in any criminal or civil court. Let alone the costs in $$$ and time it would require for legal acquittal or exoneration - one could easily rip through five figures just to clear his or her name, with absolutely no guarantee of legal restitution from whoever accused or indicted.
It's not a pro-Chibson/anti-Chibson choice (even though I'm the latter), it's the smart business choice. I also don't allow known stolen instruments, illegal drugs, felons and/or fugitives in my workshop for similar reasons.
If you are a trademark or IP attorney by trade, thanks for your legal advice.
But refusing to possess known counterfeit guitars - for whatever reason - keeps me at ZERO risk of having to defend myself or my business in any criminal or civil court. Let alone the costs in $$$ and time it would require for legal acquittal or exoneration - one could easily rip through five figures just to clear his or her name, with absolutely no guarantee of legal restitution from whoever accused or indicted.
It's not a pro-Chibson/anti-Chibson choice (even though I'm the latter), it's the smart business choice. I also don't allow known stolen instruments, illegal drugs, felons and/or fugitives in my workshop for similar reasons.
Posted on 5/20/25 at 12:27 pm to TheFretShack
You do you bro.
But just because you are overly cautious, doesn't mean you have anything to worry about. A repair shop has ZERO liability for that, both civil or criminal. (I'm in the component repair business in another industry)
But just because you are overly cautious, doesn't mean you have anything to worry about. A repair shop has ZERO liability for that, both civil or criminal. (I'm in the component repair business in another industry)
Posted on 5/20/25 at 2:38 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
I'm calling BS based on my prior experience. In the early 90's I worked at a gun shop. Customer brought in a used German Weatherby Mk V and put a down payment to have a custom rifle built. My boss ordered the barrel, stock, trigger, etc ... everything the customer wanted. Rifle was completed and we contacted the customer to come pick it up and pay off the balance owed. After 3 months, customer advised he lost his job, couldn't afford the rifle, and gave verbal permission for my boss to sell it. It eventually sold and 2 months later ATF shows up to audit the books. The rifle was reported stolen. Without his knowledge, my boss was in possession of a stolen firearm, which he then sold. My boss got into all kinds of trouble, and it cost him some money.
Whether you're repairing guitars, firearms, Rolex watches, audio equipment, lawn mowers, boat motors, or widgets. Getting caught with stolen goods in your shop/possession is never a good thing. Granted the odds and percentages of this happening are extremely low. However, in today's world, a business owners need to exercise caution as anything is possible with burglaries and home/car invasions happening more frequently.
Whether you're repairing guitars, firearms, Rolex watches, audio equipment, lawn mowers, boat motors, or widgets. Getting caught with stolen goods in your shop/possession is never a good thing. Granted the odds and percentages of this happening are extremely low. However, in today's world, a business owners need to exercise caution as anything is possible with burglaries and home/car invasions happening more frequently.
Posted on 5/20/25 at 3:44 pm to Got Blaze
quote:
I'm calling BS based on my prior experience. In the early 90's I worked at a gun shop. Customer brought in a used German Weatherby Mk V and put a down payment to have a custom rifle built. My boss ordered the barrel, stock, trigger, etc ... everything the customer wanted. Rifle was completed and we contacted the customer to come pick it up and pay off the balance owed. After 3 months, customer advised he lost his job, couldn't afford the rifle, and gave verbal permission for my boss to sell it. It eventually sold and 2 months later ATF shows up to audit the books. The rifle was reported stolen. Without his knowledge, my boss was in possession of a stolen firearm, which he then sold. My boss got into all kinds of trouble, and it cost him some money.
Whether you're repairing guitars, firearms, Rolex watches, audio equipment, lawn mowers, boat motors, or widgets. Getting caught with stolen goods in your shop/possession is never a good thing. Granted the odds and percentages of this happening are extremely low. However, in today's world, a business owners need to exercise caution as anything is possible with burglaries and home/car invasions happening more frequently.
You are comparing "selling" a stolen gun vs "repairing" a fake Gibson guitar.
Yea, totally the same.
Any item could be stolen. This discussion is about counterfeit items.
There is no way for anyone to know whether an item is stolen or not.
Posted on 5/20/25 at 4:37 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
What's your goal here? Fret is doing what he feels protects his reputation and livelihood. Let that be.
Posted on 5/20/25 at 5:16 pm to Devious
Good for him. He could've said he just chooses not to work on them, rather than use some false legal rationale.
Then the other guy comparing stolen guns to counterfeit guitars just made the thread sillier.
Then the other guy comparing stolen guns to counterfeit guitars just made the thread sillier.
Posted on 5/20/25 at 7:49 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
So I give TWO very legit reasons why I don't take in illegal guitars in a business built around legal guitars ... and I get accused of "false legal rationale" by someone who's admitted he's not a TM or IP attorney. LOL
Posted on 5/20/25 at 8:12 pm to TheFretShack
This is a music board. Lots of people on this board play guitar, buy/sell guitars, work on guitars etc.
Putting out the false idea that being in possession of a counterfeit guitar is a criminal or even civil offense is not something to be celebrated.
Why would you want to needlessly scare people?
I don’t care what you work on or why, but don’t get mad when your false information is challenged.
The idea that you have to be a TM, IP or patent attorney to know the law is idiotic.
Unless you are knowingly selling counterfeit products, you are not violating any laws. Possessing or repairing a counterfeit item is not illegal.
Putting out the false idea that being in possession of a counterfeit guitar is a criminal or even civil offense is not something to be celebrated.
Why would you want to needlessly scare people?
I don’t care what you work on or why, but don’t get mad when your false information is challenged.
The idea that you have to be a TM, IP or patent attorney to know the law is idiotic.
Unless you are knowingly selling counterfeit products, you are not violating any laws. Possessing or repairing a counterfeit item is not illegal.
Posted on 5/20/25 at 10:14 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
May not be illegal, but buying a know counterfeit item just perpetuates the cycle, Some poor bastard will end up buying one as a real mccoy and end up losing their arse, If you deal in anything selling or repairing and you have a known fake in your shop you lose credibility with the public, even if,you tell,them it’s fake. Most people will questin the other stuff you have for sale,
Posted on 5/21/25 at 11:49 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
This is a music board. Lots of people on this board play guitar, buy/sell guitars, work on guitars etc.
Putting out the false idea that being in possession of a counterfeit guitar is a criminal or even civil offense is not something to be celebrated.
Why would you want to needlessly scare people?
I don’t care what you work on or why, but don’t get mad when your false information is challenged.
The idea that you have to be a TM, IP or patent attorney to know the law is idiotic.
Unless you are knowingly selling counterfeit products, you are not violating any laws. Possessing or repairing a counterfeit item is not illegal.
Why are you pushing this narrative so hard? Fretshack is a great contributor to this board and gave a very reasonable/honest answer about why he doesn't work on that crap. You still haven't presented any information to refute what he has said. He's not discouraging anyone else from working on these items, he's stating he doesn't want to open himself up to POTENTIAL legal issues whether they are valid or not. He's not telling you how to run your business.
Posted on 5/21/25 at 12:37 pm to SingleMalt1973
quote:
May not be illegal
It’s not. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not arguing or “pushing a narrative”
Thanks for agreeing.
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