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8th Air force last operational loss in WW2

Posted on 5/7/25 at 11:53 am
Posted by bigjoe1
Member since Jan 2024
872 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 11:53 am
quote:

"Last Operational loss of the 8th Air Force in WWII"
7-May-45 - Mission ‘Operation Chowhound’ - Lionel Sceurman crew
B-17G 44-8640 ‘Section 8’
Flight to Utrecht Netherlands and return, bomb load – emergency rations/foodstuff.
By this point of the war, the 6th chowhound flown by ‘Section 8’ and crew, these missions were considered as ‘milk runs’ as the Dutch authorities via the Red Cross had given guarantees of safety to these mercy flights.
By now, 'Section 8' was a trusted, proven 'old hand', having completed 54 bombing missions and five 'Chowhound' flights.
Successful low level flight to target and the drop was successfully completed. These missions gave the crews a great morale boost, dropping food rather than explosives.
Where the story gets a 'tad sketchy', on the return flight Section 8 and crew, either overflew SS diehards protecting sensitive military installations and were engaged by anti-aircraft fire, or they ran into mechanical difficulties.
Either way, we know that they were already committed to cross the North Sea when #2 engine failed. The engines fire extinguisher was operated and the engine was feathered, partially, with the damage causing the oil to cover the wing behind the damage.
By this time Lt Sceurman was already crossing the North Sea back to base. Somewhere mid crossing the fire must have broken back out as the survivors indicated the fire was attempted to be put out by rapidly losing altitude. This effort was unsuccessful and now the oil covered wing, partially fuel of fuel and fuel fumes, was in danger of catching on fire. Hence Lt Sceurman made the call approximately 90% of the way across the North Sea back to base, for the crew to bail out.
In the nose the togglier indicated to the navigator there were troubles out on the wing and operated the nose exit door, following it out and down in his slightly delayed jump. The navigator now saw the engine or part thereof depart the aircraft in flames. It was time to go, he slightly delayed his jump by exiting via the open bomb bay with a rescue dingy, though the dingy was blown out of his hands. He pulled his chute immediately and then it seemed almost instantly that he was hitting the sea.
With the crew out of the aircraft Lt Sceurman and his co-pilot attempted a ditching into the North Sea 12 x miles off Benacre Ness. Again, fate worked against them, when one wing hit first causing the aircraft to cartwheel, rapidly settle and begin going under.
For the survivors, fate now intervened positively, as a returning 550 Sqn RAF Lancaster spotted the ditched and foundering B-17, they circled as she settled further, the radio operator getting a distress message off to the nearest RAF stations. As they circled, they attempted to drop floats, life jackets and dropped flares to mark the location.
They then spotted a trawler not far from the scene and set off to contact them via morse lamp, then shepherded the boat to the scene. By now 2 x further B-17’s had been alerted to the situation and they also dropped flares and life jackets as best they could.
Now, at this point, it was over to the rescuers, as the Lancaster and B-17’s circled, two ASR assets approached, an RAF Walrus aircraft landed and pulled one survivor and one dead man from the clutches of the North Sea. Within minutes a Catalina was on scene, further rescuing two survivors.
No further casualties could be found and rescued and so the flying boats took off for their respective bases. Unfortunately, the survivor aboard the Walrus, succumbed to secondary drowning from the sea water ingested before they could even land at base.
Of the 13 men aboard ‘Section 8’, two men (S/Sgt Bubolz and Sgt Lane) were qualified voice linguists, seasoned aircrew and aboard as observers, two men from the photo section were there, to see the sights on this ‘milk run’, they were very unlucky that their first flight in Europe was their last.
Of the remaining crew members seven were killed in action, with only two crew members surviving and returning to duty. Six men remained Missing in Action (MIA) / Finding of Death (FOD), unrecovered and their names appear on one of two sets of Tablets of the Missing.
Crew:
(P) Lt Lionel N. Sceurman, (CP) Lt James R. Schwartz*, (N.) Lt Russell Cook**, (N/Trg) Lt David C. Condon*
(RO) T/Sgt Gano E. McPherson, (BTG) S/Sgt John J. Keller, (WG) S/Sgt Norbert J. Kuper, (TG)S/Sgt William R. Lankford
(Obs) S/Sgt Edward H. Bubolz, (Obs/Linguist) T/Sgt Robert W. Korber, (Obs) S/Sgt Gerald Lane, (Obs/Linguist) Sgt Joseph P. Repiscak, (Obs) Pfc George L. Walteri.
* Returned to Duty (RTD)
** Died of Wounds (DOW)
Ages of the men ranged from 21 to 29 years old, a large proportion in their very early twenties, with average being roughly 24.
All deaths in war are tragic, Wars are by definition a failure of diplomacy and strong nations fend of those that would subjugate lesser countries.
All gave some, some gave all. RIP ‘Section 8’ crew.
LINKGreartist Generation Restoration
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
19109 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 12:09 pm to
I live about 20 minutes from the Mighty Eighth museum. Need to check this out.
Posted by TigerRoyale
Zwolle
Member since Oct 2023
710 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 12:39 pm to
The 8th Army Air Force alone lost more men than the entire United States Marine Corp in WW2.
This post was edited on 5/7/25 at 3:47 pm
Posted by sledgehammer
SWLA
Member since Oct 2020
5523 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 12:46 pm to
I’m 225 pages into Masters of the Air for the second time. It’s one of my favorite books.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
42853 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 2:08 pm to
My great uncle was a pilot in the 8th Air Force in WW2. He got his plane and crew home after the Krauts put 80 holes in his back.

Posted by salty1
Member since Jun 2015
4809 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 2:37 pm to
quote:

The 8th Air Force alone lost more men than the entire United States Marine Corp in WW2.


8th Air Force KIA WWII - 26,000
Casualties (wounded) - 47,000
US Marines KIA WWII - 19,733
Casualties (wounded) - 68,207

Size of 8th Air Force during WWII - 200,000
(16,000 today including reserves)

Marine Corps during WWII - 475,000
(175K active 33K reserves today).

Service in the 8th during the war was a butcher shop…wow.



This post was edited on 5/7/25 at 2:39 pm
Posted by TigerRoyale
Zwolle
Member since Oct 2023
710 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 3:54 pm to
When I was first told this I thought no way. The 8th was definitely hazardous duty during WWII.
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
102377 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 4:13 pm to
Iwo Jima has almost a mystical significance to the Marine Corps. I don't know why Ploesti doesn't have the same status in the Air Force five medals of honor in one day
Posted by aTmTexas Dillo
East Texas Lake
Member since Sep 2018
19346 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 4:40 pm to
They were doing such momentous and important things at such a young age. They had their shite together.
Posted by bigjoe1
Member since Jan 2024
872 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 4:47 pm to
So many of those losses came early in the war when the 8th conducted long raids into the heart of Germany with no long-range fighter escorts available.
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
83244 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 4:50 pm to
quote:

So many of those losses came early in the war when the 8th conducted long raids into the heart of Germany with no long-range fighter escorts available.


essentiallly suicide missions, and most of the crews knew it
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
41610 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 4:56 pm to
Something like 53 B-24s were lost in Operation Tidal Wave. They came in so low, the pilots had to dodge smokestacks, and the gunners were shooting it out with the flak crews.
This post was edited on 5/8/25 at 6:31 pm
Posted by reggierayreb
Member since Nov 2012
18058 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 5:01 pm to
Correct

Air raids and air reconnaissance were still in their infancy at the start of WW2. A lot of fly that way and look around til you run out of fuel or fly that direction and drop munitions until you run out of fuel or get shot down. You also have to consider that early in the war our enemies still had thousands of flak guns and various anti-aircraft cannons firing up from the ground as well as robust air forces that could quickly dispatch fighter planes to shoot down bombers. Those defensive capabilities had been greatly reduced throughout both Germany and Japan by 1944.


This post was edited on 5/7/25 at 5:04 pm
Posted by bmela12
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2009
373 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 5:40 pm to
quote:

I live about 20 minutes from the Mighty Eighth museum. Need to check this out.


Where is the museum?
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
83244 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 5:42 pm to
quote:

Where is the museum?


about 20 minutes from old baw's house
Posted by Kjnstkmn
Vermilion Parish
Member since Aug 2020
16084 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 6:33 pm to
Posted by patriotgrunt
Fort Stewart, GA
Member since Oct 2007
369 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 6:36 pm to
It’s located in Pooler, GA, just outside of Savannah. It’s worth the visit if you’re in the area.
Posted by Lou Loomis
A pond. Ponds good for you.
Member since Mar 2025
198 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 6:43 pm to
quote:

Where is the museum?


Savannah, Ga. Or just outside it. I went many years ago. One of the docent’s was a veteran of the 8th named Bud Porter and he showed us around. I still have his card.

Another good museum is the 93th Bomb Group museum outside of Tucson. It’s on Davis-Monothan Air Base, which is where one of the huge boneyard of old planes is located. This was the one Ronald Miller took Cindy Mancini on their big date in 1987.
Posted by FlyingTiger06
Bossier City, LA
Member since Nov 2004
1938 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 6:55 pm to
quote:

I don't know why Ploesti doesn't have the same status in the Air Force


Because the AF is too infatuated with fighter pilots. Fighter pilots have been ruling the roost in the AF since the late 80s and it's why the AF is in a death spiral right now. Way short on pilots (and other aircrew), not enough aircraft to really accomplish the mission, aircraft availability and mission capable rates of the entire fleet are in the toilet, years behind in strike weapon development, and a huge imbalance in long range strike capability (to include tankers to extend aircraft range) versus short range capabilities. That's fine for fighting 3rd world shitholes like Afghanistan and Iraq where we can base in their backyard. But against China who can reign 1,000s of surface to surface missiles on our bases in the Pacific each day, that is a path to disaster.

But no one cares because the fighter pilots are cool and have to know what's right. Just like with the entire premise of the need for F-18s in Top Gun: Maverick. Having to do a low-level penetration through that "canyon" and then the ridiculous Laser Guided Bomb (LGB) delivery was completely unnecessary. That mission could have been completed by a single B-2 bomber with the Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP). But as we say, fighters and fighter pilots make great movies...bombers and bomber crews win wars.
Posted by bmela12
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2009
373 posts
Posted on 5/7/25 at 8:16 pm to
quote:

It’s located in Pooler, GA, just outside of Savannah. It’s worth the visit if you’re in the area.


Thanks! My grandpa was in the 384th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and it would be pretty cool to check it out.
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