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Breaking the immigration laws and then demanding due process?
Posted on 5/7/25 at 8:18 am
Posted on 5/7/25 at 8:18 am
This is a situation of a Perfect Storm arising in our USA. Does due process require a judge, jury, prosecutor, defense attorney to decide the issue. Is the verdict then subject to the appeal process etc. Or should this be handled as a simple immigration matter? The subjects entered the country illegally and broke the immigration law. That being the fact are they automatically afforded the rights of US citizens with habeas corpus and the rights and protection of all the Bill of Rights. Supreme Court will end up adjudicating this for sure. The problem becomes one of logistics. How do you provide for tens of millions of trials, how do you pay for the billions of dollars it will cost, how do you apprehend and detain the millions of people charged. It is unrealistic to think that this is even possible. How this issue is resolved will have a profound impact on the country. How the immigration laws are enforced makes all the difference in the outcome.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 8:21 am to TigerPlate

Just for context. And you know how fast that DOJ worked getting J6’ers locked up, these swamp lawfare prostitutes will bring legal system to grinding halt to stop deporting illegal invading gang bangers.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 8:23 am to TigerPlate
it is not a legal matter therefor you get no due process. its an administrative matter. They are not citizens of America and the government has the right to send them back.
Tell a judge if they want to make it a legal matter then the govt can charge them all with many felonies.
Tell a judge if they want to make it a legal matter then the govt can charge them all with many felonies.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 8:31 am to SlayTime
WHY DO THEY NEED A LEGAL HEARING TO BE RETURNED TO THEIR HOMES???
Posted on 5/7/25 at 8:50 am to TigerPlate
focus on the word due, not the word process.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 9:24 am to CAD703X
quote:
WHY DO THEY NEED A LEGAL HEARING TO BE RETURNED TO THEIR HOMES???
Because it take 50,000 years and cost 100’s of trillions of dollars to enact.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 9:47 am to TigerPlate
quote:
Does due process require a judge, jury, prosecutor, defense attorney to decide the issue.
No
quote:
Is the verdict then subject to the appeal process etc.
If by verdict you mean removal order, yes there is an appeal process.
quote:
Or should this be handled as a simple immigration matter?
They are but lol that you think it is always "simple."
quote:
How do you provide for tens of millions of trials, how do you pay for the billions of dollars it will cost, how do you apprehend and detain the millions of people charged. It is unrealistic to think that this is even possible. How this issue is resolved will have a profound impact on the country.
Same way that has been happening since the passage of the INA.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 10:48 am to TigerPlate
quote:
The subjects entered the country illegally and broke the immigration law.
As long as it is verified they have no legal basis to be here, then remove them. That is the only due process demanded.
If law enforcement can just label anyone an illegal immigrant and ship them off without due process, then they can ship off anyone they want, even citizens. Once labeled as an illegal, the citizen would have no due process rights to prove LEO was wrong.
quote:
Supreme Court will end up adjudicating this for sure.
It has, many times. Just last month, in a per curiam ruling on the Venezuelan TDA members the Court said:
quote:
“It is well established that the Fifth Amendment entitles aliens to due process of law” in the context of removal proceedings.
Due process is simply providing fairness and an opportunity to be heard. It keeps our government in check, and it is something we should all be proud of, not bitching about.
quote:
How do you provide for tens of millions of trials, how do you pay for the billions of dollars it will cost, how do you apprehend and detain the millions of people charged
These are the questions that have plagued officials attempting to address illegal immigration for decades. The process for an individual is not as complicated as you seem to think, but multiply it by 10 million and it's overwhelming.
I guess it's like eating an elephant: one bite at a time.
They are attempting to expand the use of expedited removal, which previously only applied near the border. I don't know the current legal status of the plan, but they intend to use it against any illegal immigrant who has been in the country less than 2 years. In expedited removal, you don't see a judge, you just get to meet with one officer.
Still, it's hard to imagine deporting more than 500,000 in a single year.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 10:52 am to TigerPlate
The term “due” is just as key as the second half of due process.
Blindly demanding “due process” begs the question, “Is it due?”
ETA: and if so, what is due? Answer: not a whole lot.
Blindly demanding “due process” begs the question, “Is it due?”
ETA: and if so, what is due? Answer: not a whole lot.
This post was edited on 5/7/25 at 10:54 am
Posted on 5/7/25 at 10:55 am to TigerPlate
Running a background check and determining they're here illegally is the due process.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 11:35 am to BuckeyeGoon
quote:
Running a background check and determining they're here illegally is the due process.
That just begs the question of how accurate the background check is.
But, as long as the person has a fair opportunity to challenge the background check, then that should be sufficient. Most illegals would have no interest sitting in jail while they challenge something they can't possibly win.
Posted on 5/7/25 at 11:40 am to TigerPlate
Before SFP gets here and the thread becomes a discussion of SFP instead of the actual topic
SFP has invented a 14th amendment that doesn't exist
1. There's an invisible "division" between the first idea and the last meaning, even though the first idea establishes who is under the jurisdiction of US law (i.e. citizens), the last idea completely wipes that out and says that "any person" is under the jurisdiction of US law. This means even people who are in the US illegally get due process because of SFP's eisegetical version of the amendment.
2. In regards to the phrase "deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," citizens get "more rights" than illegals, who get "lesser rights" even though that language absolutely doesn't appear in the plain wording and totally contradicts the SFP interpretation of "any person" being under the jurisdiction of US law where there is no distinction of greater or lesser protections.
But then again, SFP claims to be a lawyer so....reasons
SFP has invented a 14th amendment that doesn't exist
1. There's an invisible "division" between the first idea and the last meaning, even though the first idea establishes who is under the jurisdiction of US law (i.e. citizens), the last idea completely wipes that out and says that "any person" is under the jurisdiction of US law. This means even people who are in the US illegally get due process because of SFP's eisegetical version of the amendment.
2. In regards to the phrase "deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," citizens get "more rights" than illegals, who get "lesser rights" even though that language absolutely doesn't appear in the plain wording and totally contradicts the SFP interpretation of "any person" being under the jurisdiction of US law where there is no distinction of greater or lesser protections.
But then again, SFP claims to be a lawyer so....reasons
This post was edited on 5/7/25 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 5/7/25 at 12:29 pm to somethingdifferent
Due process requires 3 elements:
Notice:
The individual must be informed of the charges or actions against them in a way that allows them to understand and respond.
Opportunity to be heard:
This includes the right to present evidence, call witnesses, and cross-examine opposing witnesses.
Impartial Tribunal:
The decision-maker must be unbiased and free from conflicts of interest.
This can all be done in like 5 minutes for a person who can’t provide any documentation that proves they are a citizen. The left wants to act like due process is some long drawn out ordeal.
It is not. And all 3 elements of due process can be satisfied in a speedy hearing. I think you would just need to set up a court with all Trump appointed judges to handle the case load.
5,000 judges could handle a million hearings each month. 200 hearings per judge per month isn’t crazy when these hearings should last no longer than 10 minutes. And anyone who doesn’t show up for their hearing forfeits their claim to due process.
EZ PZ
Notice:
The individual must be informed of the charges or actions against them in a way that allows them to understand and respond.
Opportunity to be heard:
This includes the right to present evidence, call witnesses, and cross-examine opposing witnesses.
Impartial Tribunal:
The decision-maker must be unbiased and free from conflicts of interest.
This can all be done in like 5 minutes for a person who can’t provide any documentation that proves they are a citizen. The left wants to act like due process is some long drawn out ordeal.
It is not. And all 3 elements of due process can be satisfied in a speedy hearing. I think you would just need to set up a court with all Trump appointed judges to handle the case load.
5,000 judges could handle a million hearings each month. 200 hearings per judge per month isn’t crazy when these hearings should last no longer than 10 minutes. And anyone who doesn’t show up for their hearing forfeits their claim to due process.
EZ PZ
Posted on 5/7/25 at 12:36 pm to ManBearSharkReb
quote:
I think you would just need to set up a court with all Trump appointed judges to handle the case load.
Been hearing for years now that there's a glut of attorneys on the market. This would be a great use of taxpayer dollars
Posted on 5/7/25 at 12:43 pm to ManBearSharkReb
And your description matches what Homan said recently that Biden admin kept the illegals out of ICE detention because what you said is precisely what would happen - gone with the quickness. Once they're released though, they could be here for years, if not permanently
My contention regarding the14th though is that illegals aren't even guaranteed "due process" in the same sense that citizens are, and Homan has said this repeatedly. Illegal? GONE. You want due process? Come through a legal port of entry.
Now SFP did quote a SCOTUS case that does suggest illegals should get the same due process protection as a citizen but, it doesn't address Tump's invocation of the AEA, it doesn't recognize that court decisions can be overturned depending on the context, it doesn't recognize that SCOTUS rulings are not always accurate regarding laws/constitution, doesn't recognize that the case cited had dissent, etc. IOW, SFP acted like it was a slam dunk win but, as usual, it isn't and still doesn't address the eisegesis invented in SFP's imagination regarding the 14th
My contention regarding the14th though is that illegals aren't even guaranteed "due process" in the same sense that citizens are, and Homan has said this repeatedly. Illegal? GONE. You want due process? Come through a legal port of entry.
Now SFP did quote a SCOTUS case that does suggest illegals should get the same due process protection as a citizen but, it doesn't address Tump's invocation of the AEA, it doesn't recognize that court decisions can be overturned depending on the context, it doesn't recognize that SCOTUS rulings are not always accurate regarding laws/constitution, doesn't recognize that the case cited had dissent, etc. IOW, SFP acted like it was a slam dunk win but, as usual, it isn't and still doesn't address the eisegesis invented in SFP's imagination regarding the 14th
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