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Devils advocate on hiring Dumars
Posted on 4/16/25 at 2:27 pm
Posted on 4/16/25 at 2:27 pm
Start off by saying I hate the entire process, but maybe there is some value in a true NBA guy that has run championship, worked in the league office and was a HOF player. Maybe he can get through to Zion and have hard conversations with Gayle about what needs to be done.
12
Posted on 4/16/25 at 2:37 pm to saints5021
Maybe. Ultimately he should be judged on what he does. We will see.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 2:40 pm to saints5021
If he was a good at drafting, I would have been more open to the idea. The fact that he's been a very poor at it and a small market team like New Orleans cannot afford to have the kinds of draft he's had over the course of his Detroit tenure makes it very hard to be positive about.
Not only that but he doesn't subscribe to any analytics and loves the model of acquiring broken reclamation projects in hoping to hit another flash in the pan like his fab 5. It worked once and he's been chasing that model ever since.
There's a reason no one wanted him for a decade and the game has changed a lot since. It feels like Mike Ditka with the Saints.
Not only that but he doesn't subscribe to any analytics and loves the model of acquiring broken reclamation projects in hoping to hit another flash in the pan like his fab 5. It worked once and he's been chasing that model ever since.
There's a reason no one wanted him for a decade and the game has changed a lot since. It feels like Mike Ditka with the Saints.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 2:45 pm to saints5021
Yea just taking a wait and see approach right now.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 2:48 pm to saints5021
Organizations that win will go find a guy who's successful and make them tell you no. Pels got a guy nobody was going after and nobody wanted.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 3:01 pm to saints5021
Good on anybody who is looking for positives here, but I just can't find reasons to try. I read into this whole process as the ownership being lazy and not really caring about winning basketball games. Just keeping the lights on for the sports team that Gayle sees as a social club, social status, and financial asset. Not a basketball team whose priority is winning - she just wants to hold on to it and coast on by. Even better for her if she gets to hire her buddies along the way who won't provide any pressure for change or bold actions, and bonus if their cheap.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 3:14 pm to rondonumbanine
He had a high level job with the NBA the last decade so it's not like we are hiring Avery Johnson. I still think that even if it works, it is so lazy
Posted on 4/16/25 at 3:17 pm to saints5021
Didn’t Billy king have the same job in the past and he’s one of the worst gms of all time. This is basically that
Posted on 4/16/25 at 3:31 pm to saints5021
quote:
Maybe he can get through to Zion
What's funny about all of this is that ownership wasn't at all offended by Zion's availability for the last several years, but when his Instagram girlfriends went public and made noise this year, our owner suddenly is appalled.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 3:54 pm to jmcwhrter
What's also funny is Gayle defending priests who have sex with little boys while clutching pearls about Zion having consentual sex with large women.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 4:02 pm to saints5021
If he is in admin rather than GM I'm good.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 4:09 pm to saints5021
The main issue is they hired him and told him he has to keep Willie and potentially trade Zion. The issue isn’t Dumars. It’s how Gayle is handcuffing people from doing their job and how she goes about this business
To go along with no real search and just seeking advice from Loomis on who to hire
To go along with no real search and just seeking advice from Loomis on who to hire
This post was edited on 4/16/25 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 4/16/25 at 4:10 pm to AOC4PREZ2028
quote:while also flying to meet rapist quarterbacks trying to get them to join the saints.
What's also funny is Gayle defending priests who have sex with little boys while clutching pearls about Zion having consentual sex with large women.
Posted on 4/16/25 at 4:14 pm to saints5021
quote:
Start off by saying I hate the entire process, but maybe there is some value in a true NBA guy that has run championship, worked in the league office and was a HOF player. Maybe he can get through to Zion and have hard conversations with Gayle about what needs to be done.
Maybe he knows the guy running the lottery machine?
Posted on 4/16/25 at 4:48 pm to WaltWhite504
quote:Fingers crossed!!!
Maybe he knows the guy running the lottery machine?
Posted on 4/17/25 at 10:35 am to NOSHAU
Locked on Pelicans guy had a good point that I will paraphrase:
Joe Dumars says he wants a team full of tough, hard-working, smart basketball players. None of these traits can be attributed to Zion. I am fully on the "Zion must be traded" train. If Dumars can get some value for Zion, he will be on his way to success.
Contrast that to Griff, who wanted "good humans." I don't want "good humans." I want dawgs who want to win and will knock your azz out if you get in their way.
Joe Dumars says he wants a team full of tough, hard-working, smart basketball players. None of these traits can be attributed to Zion. I am fully on the "Zion must be traded" train. If Dumars can get some value for Zion, he will be on his way to success.
Contrast that to Griff, who wanted "good humans." I don't want "good humans." I want dawgs who want to win and will knock your azz out if you get in their way.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 11:02 am to supe12sta12z
There a list of all the guys he drafted?
I guess I could go to basketball reference and see.
I guess I could go to basketball reference and see.
Posted on 4/17/25 at 11:13 am to iwyLSUiwy
Yes and it’s horrible
Posted on 4/17/25 at 11:13 am to iwyLSUiwy
His team-building success with the Pistons was not through the draft.
Read this hatchet-job, ripping Dumars. It glosses over his success building a team that made the ECF 6 seasons in a row. It says:
The bulk of that 2004 Pistons core was built simply by Dumars identifying winning players in losing circumstances. Chauncey Billups is a perfect example of this. He was the No. 5 pick in the 1997 NBA Draft, so he was clearly talented. But Rick Pitino traded him 50 games into his rookie season, and he wound up playing for four teams in his first five seasons. Point guards take time to develop, and stability helps quite a bit. The league had mostly given up on Billups. Dumars saw an opportunity and grabbed it.
Rip Hamilton broke out in his second season in the NBA, but in his third, he was forced to share the floor with Michael Jordan in Washington. He handled it well, but it took the spotlight off of him and perhaps hid how valuable he was becoming. Jerry Stackhouse, meanwhile, was a two-time All-Star and a former scoring champion, but Dumars saw he was declining. He flipped the more proven player for the ascending one. Stackhouse never made another All-Star team. Hamilton became an essential Piston.
Ben Wallace was acquired opportunistically. When Grant Hill became a free agent in 2000, he could have signed with another team outright, leaving Detroit with nothing. Instead, he agreed to a sign-and-trade that sent Wallace back to the Pistons. Had Hill gone elsewhere, or if the Magic would have just come up with a contract structure in which he didn't need to be signed-and-traded, Wallace would have stayed in Orlando. This was quick and creative work on Dumars' part. He turned what could have been nothing into a whole lot of something.
LINK
Read this hatchet-job, ripping Dumars. It glosses over his success building a team that made the ECF 6 seasons in a row. It says:
The bulk of that 2004 Pistons core was built simply by Dumars identifying winning players in losing circumstances. Chauncey Billups is a perfect example of this. He was the No. 5 pick in the 1997 NBA Draft, so he was clearly talented. But Rick Pitino traded him 50 games into his rookie season, and he wound up playing for four teams in his first five seasons. Point guards take time to develop, and stability helps quite a bit. The league had mostly given up on Billups. Dumars saw an opportunity and grabbed it.
Rip Hamilton broke out in his second season in the NBA, but in his third, he was forced to share the floor with Michael Jordan in Washington. He handled it well, but it took the spotlight off of him and perhaps hid how valuable he was becoming. Jerry Stackhouse, meanwhile, was a two-time All-Star and a former scoring champion, but Dumars saw he was declining. He flipped the more proven player for the ascending one. Stackhouse never made another All-Star team. Hamilton became an essential Piston.
Ben Wallace was acquired opportunistically. When Grant Hill became a free agent in 2000, he could have signed with another team outright, leaving Detroit with nothing. Instead, he agreed to a sign-and-trade that sent Wallace back to the Pistons. Had Hill gone elsewhere, or if the Magic would have just come up with a contract structure in which he didn't need to be signed-and-traded, Wallace would have stayed in Orlando. This was quick and creative work on Dumars' part. He turned what could have been nothing into a whole lot of something.
LINK
This post was edited on 4/17/25 at 11:14 am
Posted on 4/17/25 at 11:55 am to saints5021
frick the Devil
frick Joe Dumars
frick Mickey Loomis
and finally
frick Gayle Benson and her support for child sexual abuse
frick Joe Dumars
frick Mickey Loomis
and finally
frick Gayle Benson and her support for child sexual abuse
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