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As an airline pilot, my opinion on the airline crash.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 10:56 am
Posted on 1/30/25 at 10:56 am
From what I have seen, it appears that ATC asked the helicopter if they had the CRJ on the approach to runway 33 in sight, and the helicopter confirmed that they did, and ATC told them to “pass behind the traffic.”
I believe the helicopter had a different aircraft in sight and obviously never saw the CRJ and flew right into it. It was just a horrible mistake and accident.
BUT, that helicopter should have never been put into that position by ATC. They should have been vectored more easterly away from the approach path of runway 33. This will probably be shown as terrible decision making by the air traffic controllers.
I believe the helicopter had a different aircraft in sight and obviously never saw the CRJ and flew right into it. It was just a horrible mistake and accident.
BUT, that helicopter should have never been put into that position by ATC. They should have been vectored more easterly away from the approach path of runway 33. This will probably be shown as terrible decision making by the air traffic controllers.
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Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:01 am to bhtigerfan
bh, how is it that the helicopter is allowed above 200’ through that whole approach area?
It seems like the helicopter climbing from 200 to 350 is the big problem here?
It seems like the helicopter climbing from 200 to 350 is the big problem here?
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:03 am to bhtigerfan
If you notice on the main Video that’s out there another plane is taking off. Do you think that is the plane the Helicopter was concentrating on? That aircraft was more in front of him while the American Flight was more on his 8 o’clock.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:06 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:The helicopter should not have been anywhere near the approach path of the runway unless he was several thousand feet high. Definitely not anywhere near the altitude of the jet.
bh, how is it that the helicopter is allowed above 200’ through that whole approach area?
It seems like the helicopter climbing from 200 to 350 is the big problem here?
The approach path to the runway is a gradual descent path, so the altitude of the jet was gradually decreasing.
At a minimum, the controller should have seen the altitude of the jet and told the helicopter to maintain an altitude above that. The altitude of the jet is displayed on the ATC radar screen and updates continuously.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:09 am to KingOrange
quote:Not sure what plane he saw, but yes, the CRJ they crashed into would have been at his 8 to 10 o’clock position.
If you notice on the main Video that’s out there another plane is taking off. Do you think that is the plane the Helicopter was concentrating on? That aircraft was more in front of him while the American Flight was more on his 8 o’clock.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:11 am to bhtigerfan
quote:
BUT, that helicopter should have never been put into that position by ATC. They should have been vectored more easterly away from the approach path of runway 33. This will probably be shown as terrible decision making by the air traffic controllers.
What was the helo doing? Just getting some hours in? If so why were they anywhere near the airport at that time? Were they asking to land? And told to land after the plane does?
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:14 am to bhtigerfan
I truly feel for the families of the victims.
But if this thing doesn't anger you because it was absolutely preventable, I don't know what to say to you.
ATC should have recognized they were way to close and never let them get that close in the 1st place.
That's completely ignoring that they were at the same altitude. (which they should never have been).
But if this thing doesn't anger you because it was absolutely preventable, I don't know what to say to you.
ATC should have recognized they were way to close and never let them get that close in the 1st place.
That's completely ignoring that they were at the same altitude. (which they should never have been).
This post was edited on 1/30/25 at 11:16 am
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:17 am to bhtigerfan
A nauseatingly banal mistake and no doubt correct, good Sir. Human error. We think somehow we are immune to such things. A very sad day knowing it was entirely preventable.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:18 am to bhtigerfan
quote:
BUT, that helicopter should have never been put into that position by ATC.
I agree. They should have never been in that position.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:18 am to KingOrange
quote:And another thing, the controllers usually give you a good description of where the traffic is to aid you in identifying them.
If you notice on the main Video that’s out there another plane is taking off. Do you think that is the plane the Helicopter was concentrating on? That aircraft was more in front of him while the American Flight was more on his 8 o’clock.
Like, “PAT25, your traffic is a CRJ, 8 o’clock, 4 miles descending thru 600 feet on visual approach to runway 33. Call traffic in sight.”
When you call, “Traffic in sight” they usually tell you to maintain visual contact and where to cross traffic. If you do not get the other traffic in sight, before you get too close to the other traffic, they will give you a heading and altitude to fly to avoid the other aircraft.
This post was edited on 1/30/25 at 11:35 am
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:19 am to bhtigerfan
quote:
From what I have seen, it appears that ATC asked the helicopter if they had the CRJ on the approach to runway 33 in sight, and the helicopter confirmed that they did, and ATC told them to “pass behind the traffic.”
I believe the helicopter had a different aircraft in sight and obviously never saw the CRJ and flew right into it. It was just a horrible mistake and accident.
BUT, that helicopter should have never been put into that position by ATC. They should have been vectored more easterly away from the approach path of runway 33. This will probably be shown as terrible decision making by the air traffic controllers.
Help me understand, maybe you have an answers or thoughts on the following questions.
1) Why is a Blackhawk helicopter flying low altitude routine training flights in one of the most congested airspaces in the US?
2) Why is a Blackhawk helicopter flying at the same altitude within the glide slope of incoming commercial aircraft?
3) Why wouldn't the Blackhawk be at an altitude above 1000 feet when crossing through airspace near a busy runway?
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:21 am to bhtigerfan
quote:
BUT, that helicopter should have never been put into that position by ATC. They should have been vectored more easterly away from the approach path of runway 33. This will probably be shown as terrible decision making by the air traffic controllers.
I agree, but suspect that the controller needed to keep the helicopter over the Potomac to avoid being too low over buildings. I hope these details come out.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:23 am to bbvdd
quote:
But if this thing doesn't anger you
Really?
He should become physically angry?
WTF is wrong with you?
This is hardly a thread where you should be inclined to virtue signal.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:25 am to bhtigerfan
This seems like the most logical explanation.
The wisdom of having a bunch of training flights pass through a busy airport is obviously not good and I'm sure that'll change.
The wisdom of having a bunch of training flights pass through a busy airport is obviously not good and I'm sure that'll change.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:25 am to Lsupimp
quote:
A nauseatingly banal mistake and no doubt correct, good Sir. Human error. We think somehow we are immune to such things. A very sad day knowing it was entirely preventable.
IDK if the anger I feel is rational or not but the whole situation pisses me off to no end.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:28 am to bhtigerfan
This is why I don't fly helicopters, shave with a straight razor, or drive a motorcycle. I don't do anything that one mistake will kill me instantly. Or try not to.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:29 am to bhtigerfan
quote:Yeah, you can see a plane taking off before the crash. Most busy airports do this.
I believe the helicopter had a different aircraft in sight and obviously never saw the CRJ and flew right into it. It was just a horrible mistake and accident.
BUT, that helicopter should have never been put into that position by ATC. They should have been vectored more easterly away from the approach path of runway 33. This will probably be shown as terrible decision making by the air traffic controllers.
I have seen that there was some hearing recently on increasing flights or something?
The biggest takeaway is wtf was this helo doing in such a flight path? At first some military said on X that there was an unmanned black helo program. But we heard the confirmation there was 2 or 3 in the helo?
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:32 am to BozemanTiger
quote:
Really?
He should become physically angry?
WTF is wrong with you?
This is hardly a thread where you should be inclined to virtue signal.
I'm not just talking about BH, I'm referring to anyone that is paying attention
A frick up killed 67 people.
It's inexcusable.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:32 am to Bass Tiger
quote:I’m not former military, but I assume most military helicopters routinely fly at relatively low altitudes compared to jets.
1) Why is a Blackhawk helicopter flying low altitude routine training flights in one of the most congested airspaces in the US?
quote:That’s the million dollar question. It should have not have been there, especially with an aircraft on the approach.
2) Why is a Blackhawk helicopter flying at the same altitude within the glide slope of incoming commercial aircraft?
quote:At most busy airports, they will clear general aviation airplanes or helicopters through the airport airspace directly over the top of the airport at several thousand feet, well above landing or departing aircraft.
3) Why wouldn't the Blackhawk be at an altitude above 1000 feet when crossing through airspace near a busy runway?
Posted on 1/30/25 at 11:33 am to bhtigerfan
That is what I don't understand. Why is a military helo flying in atz of a major civilian airport and at night. Just no reason for it. Hundreds of other sites could be used for any variety of reasons.
This post was edited on 1/30/25 at 11:34 am
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