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Message
If both political parties are on the side of Labor, what does this mean for capitalism?
Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:33 am
Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:33 am
After the past week it's clear that the MAGA wing is trying to hijack the GOP into a party for Labor. Originally MAGA was sold as a limited version of this just for Americans at the lowest end of the economic spectrum who were "left behind" by our economy developing beyond their prior capabilities. This hit home by reinforcing this halcyon view of the Midwest as Americana, focusing on the white people impacted by a changing economy.
We were sold a policy of fedgov using limited, targeted policies like tariffs to help out a relatively small population with controlled regulation/intervention to create controlled wealth redistribution to make these jobs viable (as naturally in a freed/capitalist country they were not anymore).
Now, the professional class has shown they want the same protectionism into the upper class. We are no longer talking about minimal redistribution for lower wages, we're talking about upper middle and upper class salary ranges. The educated, credentialed, professional class is now demanding similar protectionist policies to what their lower class MAGA brethren were promised.
So now we have the DEMs and GOP promoting to be the parties of the Labor side of the equation. I've seen many arguments this week by "anti-Left" or MAGA types that literally mirror a Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren-style protectionist labor policy. I've seen dozens of references to the Left-NPC "greedy corporations" or "corporatism" or "corporate overlords" comments by self-professed anti-Left/MAGA types.
So what happens to capitalism (aka freedom)?
Hell, add in the consumer protection that MAGA now promotes (see: RFK's desired regulation of "Big pharma" and "Big Food") and MAGA seems to be an outright Nanny State party now. If you want more examples of this, look at the Biden FTC bans non-compete threads.
The OT version was easier to find on Google), for a more robust discussion.
But back to the main point: where do capitalists, company owners, the producers who create jobs and salaries that make America great go? What happens when we shrug (to use a once popular term when capitalism was in favor on here)?
Never forget
We were sold a policy of fedgov using limited, targeted policies like tariffs to help out a relatively small population with controlled regulation/intervention to create controlled wealth redistribution to make these jobs viable (as naturally in a freed/capitalist country they were not anymore).
Now, the professional class has shown they want the same protectionism into the upper class. We are no longer talking about minimal redistribution for lower wages, we're talking about upper middle and upper class salary ranges. The educated, credentialed, professional class is now demanding similar protectionist policies to what their lower class MAGA brethren were promised.
So now we have the DEMs and GOP promoting to be the parties of the Labor side of the equation. I've seen many arguments this week by "anti-Left" or MAGA types that literally mirror a Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren-style protectionist labor policy. I've seen dozens of references to the Left-NPC "greedy corporations" or "corporatism" or "corporate overlords" comments by self-professed anti-Left/MAGA types.
So what happens to capitalism (aka freedom)?
Hell, add in the consumer protection that MAGA now promotes (see: RFK's desired regulation of "Big pharma" and "Big Food") and MAGA seems to be an outright Nanny State party now. If you want more examples of this, look at the Biden FTC bans non-compete threads.
quote:
I think this is wonderful. Corporations have enough power.
quote:
If college athletes can transfer whenever and play wherever immediately then why not this?
The OT version was easier to find on Google), for a more robust discussion.
But back to the main point: where do capitalists, company owners, the producers who create jobs and salaries that make America great go? What happens when we shrug (to use a once popular term when capitalism was in favor on here)?
Never forget
29
Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:37 am to SlowFlowPro
We haven’t had anything remotely resembling capitalism since the early 1900s.
Argentina, if they keep at their current projection, will be the only capitalist nation on earth.
Argentina, if they keep at their current projection, will be the only capitalist nation on earth.
This post was edited on 12/30/24 at 7:39 am
Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:38 am to Hayekian serf
quote:
We haven’t had anything remotely resembling capitalism since the early 1900s.
But on the spectrum, I would prefer more capitalism to a command economy.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:45 am to Hayekian serf
quote:
We haven’t had anything remotely resembling capitalism since the early 1900s.
Well, that’s hyperbole. We certainly would profit by reducing regulations, government spending and tax rates, but our current system is basically capitalist.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:45 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:I think people appreciate capitalism, supply and demand, but find that the importation of a new, cheaper supply is a cheat code for some in the system. There is no reciprocal cheat for demand.
So what happens to capitalism (aka freedom)?
Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:46 am to SlowFlowPro
The arrogance of this dude is unreal.
I promise you he's been thinking about doing this post for awhile.
I promise you he's been thinking about doing this post for awhile.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:47 am to Penrod
quote:
Well, that’s hyperbole. We certainly would profit by reducing regulations, government spending and tax rates, but our current system is basically capitalist.
It's the most capitalist country of all large economies, possibly of all countries (over a long-term sample)
Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:48 am to thermal9221
quote:
I promise you he's been thinking about doing this post for awhile.
Since yesterday.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:51 am to Jake88
quote:
but find that the importation of a new, cheaper supply is a cheat code for some in the system. There is no reciprocal cheat for demand.
But this ignores the outcomes and their positive effect on society (and the workers). More profits = more investment, more new companies, more new/developed products, more jobs, etc.
The reason why we are still the dominant economic force in the world with no competition for our currency, even in the face of our spending/debt issues, is our system.
The reason why areas like Europe have fallen is their pro-labor protectionism that has gutted their economic progress for decades. The EU is our only real competition the psat 50 years and they weren't a competition (remember the fears over the Euroe in the early 2000s?
)
Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:51 am to SlowFlowPro
If you're always looking to price down labor, you aren't 'on the side of labor.'
Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:55 am to blueboy
quote:
If you're always looking to price down labor, you aren't 'on the side of labor.'
Again, MAGA revealed itself to want to right this, over the past few days, which makes them decidedly pro-Labor.
This is not new for the diehards
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:56 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:No, it makes them nativist.
which makes them decidedly pro-Labor.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 7:58 am to blueboy
quote:
If you're always looking to price down labor, you aren't 'on the side of labor.'
If you're always looking to price down your goods, you aren't on the side of the American worker.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 8:02 am to blueboy
quote:
No, it makes them nativist.
That digression will lead to a discussion on racism, so let's stick to economics. You're also posting a proposed result, not a policy itself.
When people are bitching about faceless (we'll ignore brown) "non-natives" taking jobs, what is the actual complaint of the "natives"? Wages.
Protecting wages is being pro-Labor by definition.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 8:03 am to SlowFlowPro
Under the US Corporatocracy real capitalism doesn't exist. The top corporations have too much political influence via Congress over the economy and over monetary policy.
Think about it, there should never be a situation where interest rates are 0%....essentially the powers that be are saying your money is worth nothing. That does not compute!!!
Think about it, there should never be a situation where interest rates are 0%....essentially the powers that be are saying your money is worth nothing. That does not compute!!!
Posted on 12/30/24 at 8:05 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:But it doesn't ignore their immediate financial security needs they feel are threatened or their belief that they are being undermined by lesser talented, but cheaper labor.
But this ignores the outcomes and their positive effect on society (and the workers). More profits = more investment, more new companies, more new/developed products, more jobs, etc
Then are they talking the lower level H1B or the top 0.01% H1B importation of workers?
There are other liberal vs conservative facets of their beyond just capitalism, like borders, culture, future voters, etc.
And I'm not stating my opinion, just what I think others think.
This post was edited on 12/30/24 at 8:06 am
Posted on 12/30/24 at 8:09 am to Jake88
quote:
There are other liberal vs conservative facets of their beyond just capitalism, like borders, culture, future voters, etc.
Sure, but we're talking about capitalism here.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 8:11 am to thermal9221
quote:
I promise you he's been thinking about doing this post for awhile.
Its a valid ideal I'd rather see people talk real issues than more H1B crap.
Posted on 12/30/24 at 8:14 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Are all of the natives the same race? Are all of the foreign job seekers the same race?
That digression will lead to a discussion on racism
Posted on 12/30/24 at 8:16 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:I know.
Sure, but we're talking about capitalism here
Again, rather than seeing the govt on the side of labor, they see the government and corporations in league with the creation of laws(H1B) or the shirlking of laws(illegals) that allow for an artificial increase in supply of labor.
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