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Why is Achilles Last Stand so hard to play?

Posted on 9/16/24 at 11:40 pm
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
57005 posts
Posted on 9/16/24 at 11:40 pm
(no message)
Posted by OceanMan
Member since Mar 2010
22796 posts
Posted on 9/17/24 at 7:07 am to
Because the low droning note is not the 1st beat/downbeat, it slides around a little before the actual downbeat. It also switches time signature and tempo around the guitar solo.

The guitar intro also doesn’t really match time when the drums come in.

Other than that, the main guitar riff doesn’t really leave space to resolve and just falls into that low droning note. Lots of tracks on this song, isolating helps pick it out.
Posted by Midget Death Squad
Meme Magic
Member since Oct 2008
28150 posts
Posted on 9/17/24 at 10:35 am to
This might be Zepplin's best song. It's certainly their most overlooked. It's perfection
Posted by Ranger Call
Lonesome Dove / Montana
Member since Apr 2023
674 posts
Posted on 9/17/24 at 2:03 pm to
quote:

Achilles Last Stand
Led Zeppelin
According to myth, Achilles was dipped in the river Styx to make him immortal. His mother held him by the heel, however, leaving it vulnerable. Paris killed him in the Trojan War by hitting him in the heel with an arrow.

Robert Plant wrote the lyrics about his travels throughout Morocco, Greece, and Spain. The music was inspired by Flamenco and Moroccan traditions. The lyrics were inspired not only by the travels but also by some of the poetry Robert was reading at the time, which includes William Blake. "Albion remains/sleeping now to rise again" is a reference to Blake's engraving The Dance Of Albion. The following is an excerpt from the poem that goes with the song: Albion rose from where he labour'd at the Mill with Slaves Giving himself for the Nations he danc'd the dance of Eternal Death

The references to the Atlas mountains, "The mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth," are simply a clever double-meaning to imply the Atlas mountains in a physical sense seeming to hold up the sky, as well as the reference to the titan Atlas and his task to hold the world on his shoulders.

Robert Plant and his wife were in a car crash while on holiday in Greece which broke Plant's ankle. Instead of touring the US, Plant and Jimmy Page wrote material for Presence, then recorded it at Musicland Studios in Munich, Germany with Plant in a wheelchair. Plant got so excited while recording this that he fell and re-injured his ankle, similarly to the song's namesake, Achilles. The title was both an acknowledgment of Plant's broken ankle as well as to the mystic location in the Atlas Mountains of Morocco which inspired the lyrics.

Jimmy Page overdubbed 6 guitar tracks to create a huge sound. In a 2007 interview with Rolling Stone magazine, Jimmy Page was asked about his memories of how he overdubbed the guitars in the studio: "It was done in one evening, the whole of the arrangement. To be honest with you, the other guys didn't know: 'Has he gone mad? Does he know what he's doing?' But at the end of it, the picture became clear. It was like a little vignette, every time something comes around."

Page takes particular pride in this track. He told Guitar Player magazine in 1977: "Presence and my control over all the contributing factors to that LP – the fact that it was done in three weeks, and all the rest of it – is so good for me. It was just good for everything really, even though it was a very anxious point, and the anxiety shows, group-wise – you know, 'Is Robert going to walk again from his auto accident in Greece?' and all this sort of thing. But I guess the solo in 'Achilles' Last Stand' on Presence is in the same tradition as the solo from 'Stairway to Heaven' on the fourth LP. It is on that level to me."

Led Zeppelin played this at the remainder of their live shows.

This is one of the longest Led Zeppelin songs. It runs 10:26.

Robert Plant described "Achilles Last Stand" to Mojo magazine as "us at our least charming, and most proficient - a Bonzo track where nobody could even believe a human could do it."
Posted by supatigah
CEO of the Keith Hernandez Fan Club
Member since Mar 2004
89775 posts
Posted on 9/17/24 at 4:30 pm to
are you being serious?
why is it hard to play with key changes, time signature changes, tempo changes, three solo breaks on a 10:32 min album track from the greatest rock band of all time?
Posted by LSU alum wannabe
Katy, TX
Member since Jan 2004
27591 posts
Posted on 9/17/24 at 7:33 pm to
I think it’s the layered tracks and parts. Drone notes. Is it standard tuning? I’m actually asking.

It’s also 4 of the greatest rock musicians ever. And they are, I believe, flexing. Kind of like Tool. Let’s just make this impossible to play.
Posted by Chorizo chang
Statesboro
Member since Feb 2022
793 posts
Posted on 9/17/24 at 10:05 pm to
quote:

This might be Zepplin's best song


??whoa champ. Its a really good song
Posted by supatigah
CEO of the Keith Hernandez Fan Club
Member since Mar 2004
89775 posts
Posted on 9/18/24 at 1:11 pm to
quote:

I think it’s the layered tracks and parts. Drone notes. Is it standard tuning? I’m actually asking.

It’s also 4 of the greatest rock musicians ever. And they are, I believe, flexing. Kind of like Tool. Let’s just make this impossible to play.


LED ZEP had Achilles on the setlist of the 77 and 79 tours
amazingly they routinely played it faster live than they did on the album

Now Four Sticks on the other hand was too hard to play routinely live
they did it a few times, then dropped it
in the clip below they actually play it faster live than they do on the album
bonham is just a beast, nothing else to be said




to give you an idea of what you are listening to on four sticks if you arent aware of the song
Youtube Link

Posted by Honest Tune
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2011
19285 posts
Posted on 9/18/24 at 3:19 pm to
He cut the original track using four drum sticks at once, hence the name.
Posted by Josh Fenderman
Ron Don Volante's PlayPen
Member since Jul 2011
6995 posts
Posted on 9/18/24 at 6:23 pm to
I remember buying this album at the airport on a whim after just graduating high school on a trip to England. I listened to it non stop the whole time. Mostly this song. Bonham is amazing on it
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
50497 posts
Posted on 9/19/24 at 8:42 am to
If anyone likes those Drumeo "_____hears ____ for the first time" videos, they dropped this one with Achilles Last Stand a few weeks back and I enjoyed it.

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