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Started By
Message
Do Muslims believe in free will?
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:06 pm
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:06 pm
I don’t think they do. My understanding is that they believe that their actions are controlled by what Allah’s will is.
If they do not have such a core belief, I think it may explain a lot about that culture (no matter which sect of Islam we’re talking about).
I think that one premise separates them from all other major religions, or at least from Judeo-Christian ethos. I also think it’s why they’re so angry all the time.
I would like to have more understanding on the topic. Could any of you suggest a source? Because my understanding could be formed from ignorance - and I would at the least like to understand why god wants me walking around in a beekeeper outfit.
If they do not have such a core belief, I think it may explain a lot about that culture (no matter which sect of Islam we’re talking about).
I think that one premise separates them from all other major religions, or at least from Judeo-Christian ethos. I also think it’s why they’re so angry all the time.
I would like to have more understanding on the topic. Could any of you suggest a source? Because my understanding could be formed from ignorance - and I would at the least like to understand why god wants me walking around in a beekeeper outfit.
22
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:10 pm to Wednesday
Mashallah you would make this thread
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:11 pm to Old Money
I don’t even know what that means. Is that a compliment or an insult.
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:27 pm to Wednesday
Jesus made you do it
I think that's what he's saying
I think that's what he's saying
This post was edited on 9/1/24 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:27 pm to Wednesday
A big chunk of Christians don't / didn't believe in free will, either.
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:32 pm to TigerIron
quote:
big chunk of Christians don't / didn't believe in free will, either.
Yet they should. GOD gave the ultimate free will, to choose whether or not to believe in Him.
He has His will of course, but has granted us the ultimate liberty to choose to surrender to it or reject it. We make the choice on our own.
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:33 pm to TigerIron
I believe in free will within a set of parameters. Probably a bad metaphor, but when I walk my dog, he has a 24 foot radius of freedom because of his leash, but not complete freedom. I believe that’s what it’s like under a sovereign King. There are the one offs of people that do truly evil things, but I believe the majority of folks are constrained, whether they know it or not. Obama probably thinks he’s completely free to do whatever, but he isn’t.
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:37 pm to Wednesday
OK, I was lucky to have had a fascinating discussion with Anthony Burgess after his lecture at Centenary just a few months after release of A Clockwork Orange.
I knew the book dealt with free will vs. a drug that prevents you from being bad. But at our sit down conversation he explained the difference between man and animals. Wild animals cannot choose between good and evil because they are driven by instinct based on survival. People can choose because they have free will.
He said we must never have a society that coerces good behavior so much that a person cannot show real goodness and virtue by choosing to do good when doing bad is a real option even with no consequences.
Islam removes that option to be good. It coerces goodness. Therefore, living a life of true virtue is impossible in Islam. You are merely avoiding consequences.
I knew the book dealt with free will vs. a drug that prevents you from being bad. But at our sit down conversation he explained the difference between man and animals. Wild animals cannot choose between good and evil because they are driven by instinct based on survival. People can choose because they have free will.
He said we must never have a society that coerces good behavior so much that a person cannot show real goodness and virtue by choosing to do good when doing bad is a real option even with no consequences.
Islam removes that option to be good. It coerces goodness. Therefore, living a life of true virtue is impossible in Islam. You are merely avoiding consequences.
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:38 pm to TigerIron
Free will is a tenet of Christianity.
You choose the way, the truth and the life. You aren’t just born with your decisions decided in advance. Your reward for being good is a good life, and a good afterlife. God will forgive us our trespasses.
Somehow Muslims believe that Allah already decided in advance that you were going to make whatever decisions you make. And they’re so twisted that they think this is free will. And Allah somehow remains pissed at you for the bad decisions he already decided that you were going to make. Or at least that’s what I can tell from researching this.
You choose the way, the truth and the life. You aren’t just born with your decisions decided in advance. Your reward for being good is a good life, and a good afterlife. God will forgive us our trespasses.
Somehow Muslims believe that Allah already decided in advance that you were going to make whatever decisions you make. And they’re so twisted that they think this is free will. And Allah somehow remains pissed at you for the bad decisions he already decided that you were going to make. Or at least that’s what I can tell from researching this.
This post was edited on 9/1/24 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:39 pm to Zach
Love this explanation
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:48 pm to Wednesday
Mashallah or Ma Sha Allah or Masha Allah or Ma Shaa Allah (Arabic: ??? ????? ????????, romanized: ma sha?a -llah ) is an Arabic phrase that literally translates to 'God has willed it',
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:54 pm to Wednesday
quote:
I don’t think they do. My understanding is that they believe that their actions are controlled by what Allah’s will is.
Your understanding is wrong and clearly shows you went into this with an agenda to try and confirm.
Free will is part of Islam, and a major part. Muslims will all be judged by their actions, deeds and misgivings on the day of judgment. That does not sound like a lack of free will.
Secondly, Muslims submission to God is not a submission of free will. It is the idea that they cannot control everything that happens based on their decisions. People live in a world filled with others and their decisions also come into play.
Muslims say things like Inshallah, which means “God Willing”. You cannot force things to happen when others in the universe are involved. This means if it is meant to happen it will, but you still have to make the efforts and decisions to make it a reality. Just like some of you say things like knock on wood after saying something you want.
But since they are all likely backwards sand people to you, they must not have free will like us Christians in the great ole US of A.
This post was edited on 9/1/24 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:57 pm to Wednesday
quote:
I don’t think they do. My understanding is that they believe that their actions are controlled by what Allah’s will is.
Do you not realize a lot of Christendom does not believe in free will either? Have you looked into Calvinism and its impact on Christianity over the last 5 centuries or so?
Posted on 9/1/24 at 2:59 pm to TigerAxeOK
quote:
He has His will of course, but has granted us the ultimate liberty to choose to surrender to it or reject it. We make the choice on our own.
Did Christ save you? or are you saving yourself by making a choice? It can't be both. If you say both, then you admit the absurdity of modern western Christianity.
Posted on 9/1/24 at 3:06 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
But since they are all likely backwards sand people to you
I mean, Arab nation average IQ scores fall in the 75-85 range, the vast majority do not support freedom of speech, allowing homosexuals to live, and behave as a death cult.
I'm sorry the shoe fits?
Posted on 9/1/24 at 3:08 pm to Wednesday
Regular Muzzi’s are good people in my book. Radical Muzzi’s need to be exterminated because they cannot deal with our existing. It’s Allah or us. Once we get that fact established we’ll be a lot better off. Just ask Isreal.
Posted on 9/1/24 at 3:17 pm to Wednesday
quote:
Do Muslims believe in free will?
I think so
quote:
My understanding is that they believe that their actions are controlled by what Allah’s will is.
I think Allah's will is better described as Allah's voice
From what has been explained to me, Islam understands people will be tempted to sin and rejecting it is seen as a great thing while Christianity is more focused on penalizing being tempted in the first place. Action v. Temptation.
Another way to put it is they believe in free will so much their religion is built on specifically overregulating everything to thwart that free will with divine rules.
Posted on 9/1/24 at 3:19 pm to Wednesday
quote:
Somehow Muslims believe that Allah already decided in advance that you were going to make whatever decisions you make. And they’re so twisted that they think this is free will
I've heard Christians of certain denominations make the same arguments, fwiw
Posted on 9/1/24 at 3:20 pm to Wednesday
Islam teaches that even if a Muslim completes all Five Pillars, it is ultimately Allah's decision whether s/he goes to Paradise.
If not, Allah can still decide (after the person is in Hell for a time) to change his mind.
If not, Allah can still decide (after the person is in Hell for a time) to change his mind.
Posted on 9/1/24 at 3:21 pm to TigerIron
quote:
A big chunk of Christians don't / didn't believe in free will, either.
Yes, this is very unfortunate. Those people are deceived.
This post was edited on 9/1/24 at 3:22 pm
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