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Potential Chevron decision impact on things like household appliances?

Posted on 6/29/24 at 9:00 am
Posted by creolechef
Member since Mar 2008
322 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 9:00 am
Can someone better versed in law explain if this decision could impact the forcing of homeowners to buy certain EPA mandated products like AC unit’s with ever changing coolants or seer ratings? Required energy star rated appliances etc? Any chance these go away or will it take years of lawsuits to make that happen?
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
20195 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 9:03 am to
I don’t think it’s entirely clear how it will shake out yet, but if I’m a car or appliance manufacturer I’m suing the government Monday and praying to God Trump wins so they don’t destroy my business in 2025 if Biden gets back in office.

It’s entirely clear however there will be a barrage of suits brought against the ATF which could enhance gun rights significantly.
Posted by dstone12
Texan
Member since Jan 2007
38486 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 9:08 am to
Can someone help me remember a SCOTUS case that involved the EPA and West VA?

It was probably 2 years ago but the board celebrated the decision because similar to this case, it makes Congress do their job vs Bureaus that have an agenda.

Can you help me remember this case?
Posted by bluedragon
Birmingham
Member since May 2020
8942 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 9:09 am to
Trump walks in on day one and reverses all regulations back to January 2020. Done.
Posted by Timeoday
Easter Island
Member since Aug 2020
17487 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 9:11 am to
I remember it and knew it was the beginning of the end of the administrative state. Our goooooooooooooooooooooooooberment is supposed to answer to us, the people. Frig' the administrative body at every level.
Posted by ryanlsu
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
1379 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 9:13 am to
The removal of Chevron deference doesn't mean that the Administrative agencies cant make regulations. It just means if they make a regulation that may overstep their statutory authority and they get taken to court, their interpretation of the statute is no longer given deference. So the courts will hear from the EPA experts and will hear from the AC company's experts and will decide if the action was within the agency's powers.

Then if congress doesn't like the way the court interpreted the statute, they can just pass a new statute that allows it.
Posted by rebeloke
Member since Nov 2012
16984 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 9:14 am to
The short answer is no it will not impact policy that has been placed in effect. The likely hood is that those cases will need to be reopened individually. The Chevron rule has been in place for 40 years. There is no way to simply erase 40 years of policy. The ruling gives back the power to enforce policy to judges to make rulings on complicated policy issues and no longer gives deference to the administrative bodies for each respective issue.

What will be directly impacted are any and all open cases that are currently under consideration.
Posted by ryanlsu
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
1379 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 9:15 am to
I think that was the case where the court said that agencies can't make these monumental decisions with outsized impact on the nation. If an agency wants to do something like that, Congress has to say it explicitly.
Posted by Purple Spoon
Hoth
Member since Feb 2005
20184 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 9:20 am to
What I was hoping for is that it removes the authority of the government to mandate certain kinds of restrictions on consumer goods such as the flow restriction on bath fixtures, DEF in diesel trucks, certain emissions restrictions on cars, and hearing protection devices on firearms which are not only legal but encouraged in some states.

But the more I look at it, that doesn’t appear to be what we are getting
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
20195 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 9:25 am to
quote:

The likely hood is that those cases will need to be reopened individually.

Agreed.
quote:

he Chevron rule has been in place for 40 years. There is no way to simply erase 40 years of policy. The ruling gives back the power to enforce policy to judges to make rulings on complicated policy issues and no longer gives deference to the administrative bodies for each respective issue.

Once the first case breaks against the government it’ll be clear there is no legal backing for anything those agencies did without legislative support and the retreat will be on.

Unless the DNC can control congress and the WH in 2024+ to push through actual legislation to reinstate the agency mandated you are about to see massive changes in multiple industries.
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
20195 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 9:27 am to
quote:

But the more I look at it, that doesn’t appear to be what we are getting

I believe it did, it just requires the companies impacted to object and then we will know for sure what the courts will sustain, but based on this ruling I don’t see how the tide doesn’t largely wash away much of what was done when the cases settle in a few years, particularly if Trump wins in 2024.
Posted by geauxturbo
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2007
4385 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 9:42 am to
Every car tuner and performance parts supplier needs to sue the EPA.

Motortrend
This post was edited on 6/29/24 at 9:43 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465521 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 10:32 am to
quote:

I believe it did, it just requires the companies impacted to object and then we will know for sure what the courts will sustain, but based on this ruling I don’t see how the tide doesn’t largely wash away much of what was done when the cases settle in a few years, particularly if Trump wins in 2024.


Just because the agency's interpretation of the statute isn't given deference doesn't mean that interpretation is automatically wrong.

That's the issue lost in the reporting of this in the echo chamber.

Many (most? a super majority?) of the regulations will be upheld without Congressional action to write longer, more detailed statutes to fill the gaps.
Posted by RobbBobb
Member since Feb 2007
33351 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 10:48 am to
quote:

There is no way to simply erase 40 years of policy.

With the advancement in technology, tons of those regs are obsolete

So this will have an immediate impact. As the agencies start trying to enforce regs, there will be immediate push back. Which will result in less enforcement, because lawsuits will eat up way too much of their budget
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465521 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 10:49 am to
quote:

because lawsuits will eat up way too much of their budget

These agencies aren't Jeff Landry and they don't farm out their difficult legal work
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
79881 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 10:56 am to
quote:

don’t think it’s entirely clear how it will shake out yet,


Yeah, we will have to wait and see.

I do know that I have a 30 year old fridge in the garage that has never missed a beat but I've gone through 2 'modern' units in the last 10 years.
Posted by offshoretrash
Farmerville, La
Member since Aug 2008
10716 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 10:59 am to
1000s of companies will bring lawsuits against them because their bullshite regulations are costing them billions of dollars a year

This ruling is huge and will affect every government agency.

All their CO2 regulations are dead now.
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
38887 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 11:03 am to
quote:

Unless the DNC can control congress


You assume that the GOPers in the House and Senate will actually display the least bit of spine or cojones.
This post was edited on 6/29/24 at 3:46 pm
Posted by dstone12
Texan
Member since Jan 2007
38486 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 11:16 am to
quote:

In 2017, Volkswagen AG (VW) agreed to pay $4.3 billion in criminal and civil penalties to settle charges related to a scheme to cheat on U.S. emissions tests. The settlement included a $2.8 billion criminal penalty, which was the largest ever imposed on an automaker at the time



I’d like to know if VW could say these rules forced them to cheat.

4.5 billion is a lot of money.
Posted by Datbawwwww
Member since Oct 2023
468 posts
Posted on 6/29/24 at 11:22 am to
It will take time, but these things will happen.
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