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We've reached price parity between EV and ICE vehicles****

Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:47 pm
Posted by frequent flyer
USA
Member since Jul 2021
3299 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:47 pm
The asterisk in the title is if you include the $7500 federal tax credit applied to electric vehicles manufactured and assembled in the USA. So keep that insanity in mind when you read articles on how EV's are now the same price as similar gasoline alternatives

In 2025, two Chevrolet Equinox crossovers will be offered for sale in the USA. While the names, the size, and dimensions are the same - they are technically very different. Both are on separate platforms, both are aimed at a different market, and both have very different expectations from a sales perspective.  

The 2025 Equinox shown below features a 4 cylinder turbo engine, an 8 speed automatic, runs on regular unleaded, and starts at $28,600:




The 2025 Equinox EV features up to 2 permanent magnet electric motors, about 330 miles of range, and starts at $34,995....but also qualifies for a $7500 federal tax credit. So thanks to Daddy Government, the EV starts at a slightly lower price as the gasoline model of the same size, from the same brand.



Chevrolet clearly put a lot of effort into both of these vehicles. The gasoline model will have to replace both the outgoing gasoline Equinox and the Malibu sedan that will be discontinued next year. The gasoline Equinox will probably turn a significant profit for Chevrolet within the first year the new model goes on sale.

The electric Equinox is a lower priced alternative to the Hyundai Ioniq5, Ford Mustang Mach E, Tesla Model Y, and Chevrolet's own Blazer EV. It's not likely that the Equinox EV will turn a profit for Chevrolet at all this generation. Within a year, the Equinox EV will be undercut in price by a competitor in its own showroom - the next generation Chevrolet Bolt.
This post was edited on 5/20/24 at 2:51 pm
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
101684 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:49 pm to
quote:

It's not likely that the Equinox EV will turn a profit for Chevrolet at all this generation.


Given labor costs, including legacy payments, I’m pretty sure GM loses money on every car they make. Just less on some than others.
Posted by bad93ex
Walnut Cove
Member since Sep 2018
30718 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:49 pm to
Still waiting on the equivalent of the Geo Metro in EV form, if they want mass adoption of EVs they will need to make a model under $20k.
Posted by Sasquatch Smash
Member since Nov 2007
25386 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

We've reached price parity reached between EV and ICE vehicles****


quote:

The asterisk in the title


I think you might have reached too far with the asterisks.
Posted by frequent flyer
USA
Member since Jul 2021
3299 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

Given labor costs, including legacy payments, I’m pretty sure GM loses money on every car they make.


They made about $12.4 billion last year, which is impressive. But that would likely be substantially higher if they weren't throwing pallets of cash into their EV business.
Posted by biglego
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2007
80096 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:51 pm to
Yeah I can’t get past the subject line
Posted by frequent flyer
USA
Member since Jul 2021
3299 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:52 pm to
quote:

Still waiting on the equivalent of the Geo Metro in EV form, if they want mass adoption of EVs they will need to make a model under $20k.



I mean you can get a pretty good used Club Car for $6500.

Posted by alphaandomega
Tuscaloosa-Here to Serve
Member since Aug 2012
15657 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:53 pm to
Except I can fill up in 5 minutes virtually anywhere.

And my ICE doesnt have the negatives of all those horrible chemicals in the EV batteries.
Posted by Hangover Haven
Metry
Member since Oct 2013
29758 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:53 pm to
Both are nice for little old ladies running to the grocery.
Posted by dewster
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
25947 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:55 pm to
quote:

The 2025 Equinox shown below features a 4 cylinder turbo engine, an 8 speed automatic, runs on regular unleaded, and starts at $28,600:



Perfectly reasonable, logical vehicle choice considering the average new car price is over $40k now.

quote:

The 2025 Equinox EV features up to 2 permanent magnet electric motors, about 330 miles of range, and starts at $34,995....but also qualifies for a $7500 federal tax credit.


If this is Ultium, it's probably also a decent product. But Chevrolet will struggle to build a few hundred of them before the end of the year. Their own CEO says that they are in EV "production hell".

The big question for early adopters will be how to handle component replacements (batteries in particular) as these vehicles age. The battery pack is the big question mark IMO.
This post was edited on 5/20/24 at 2:57 pm
Posted by Corinthians420
Iowa
Member since Jun 2022
12929 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 2:55 pm to
quote:

but also qualifies for a $7500 federal tax credit. So thanks to Daddy Government, the EV starts at a slightly lower price as the gasoline model of the same size, from the same brand.

Its crazy that the government never subsidized any businesses until EVs.

They've certainly never gave automobile manufacturers money
Posted by TigerIron
Member since Feb 2021
3646 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

Its crazy that the government never subsidized any businesses until EVs.

They've certainly never gave automobile manufacturers money


What are the good reasons for government to interfere in the market in this way? Why does this make sense? Why is it a good use of our money at a time when the government is fantastically, extraordinarily in debt and people are struggling financially? Why, at the same time, is the government making ICE vehicles much more expensive for ordinary people with ever-tightening fuel standards and more and more regulations?

Why does any of that make sense?

If the electric car is the car of the future, surely it will take over on its own.

And, blowing a bunch of money to make it happen faster isn't going to materially move the needle on fossil fuels/ climate change.

If it's not, then this is just a huge mistake.

But maybe you have a good argument to the contrary.
Posted by bad93ex
Walnut Cove
Member since Sep 2018
30718 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

What are the good reasons for government to interfere in the market in this way?


Playing Devil's Advocate here but the prevailing thought is that behind only "White Supremacy," the climate crisis is the biggest threat to the United States and the world. EVs are supposed to have overall lower emissions of carbon dioxide compared to their ICE counterparts.

Posted by member12
Bob's Country Bunker
Member since May 2008
32605 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 3:18 pm to
quote:

EVs are supposed to have overall lower emissions of carbon dioxide compared to their ICE counterparts.



Yes but only if your local power provider uses unicorns for base load generation when solar or wind isn't happening.

This movement is anti-logic. So they are against nukes, natural gas, and certainly against coal.
Posted by bad93ex
Walnut Cove
Member since Sep 2018
30718 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

This movement is anti-logic. So they are against nukes, natural gas, and certainly against coal.



Certain "rich men north of Richmond" are undoubtedly heavily invested in these "green" companies and stand to make cash hand over fist.
This post was edited on 5/20/24 at 3:37 pm
Posted by billjamin
Houston
Member since Jun 2019
14997 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 3:30 pm to
quote:

What are the good reasons for government to interfere in the market in this way?

The most straight faced argument is that everything else has been subsidized and stopping now would stall advancement. If it's going to happen, i actually prefer the consumer facing credits rather than just giving the manufacturers a boat load of cash.
Posted by Corinthians420
Iowa
Member since Jun 2022
12929 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 3:33 pm to
quote:

Yes but only if your local power provider uses unicorns for base load generation when solar or wind isn't happening.

This is actually still false. Power plants are more efficient at producing electricity than vehicles are at internal combustion, even when using fossil fuels in both scenarios.
Posted by TigersnJeeps
FL Panhandle
Member since Jan 2021
2410 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 4:00 pm to
The manufacturers have received money regardless of what they are building (eg bailouts a while back).

However, EV credits direct to the purchaser is unique and in addition to all the other subsidies to the corporation in general and specific to a car model (eg EVs).
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
130121 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 4:23 pm to
Tax credits are unfair to consumers
Posted by TigerTatorTots
The Safeshore
Member since Jul 2009
81670 posts
Posted on 5/20/24 at 4:36 pm to
I never thought I'd see the day where I am actually interested in an EV, specifically the new Tesla Model 3 Performance trim since the $7500 applies. Pretty awesome the features that would come with a mid 40s sedan and "filling up" my vehicle at home would be ~$5.25 for 300 miles.
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