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re: Uh oh...everyone's favorite "pro gay" Pope just shite in the punchbowl

Posted on 4/9/24 at 12:20 pm to
Posted by Wally Sparks
Atlanta
Member since Feb 2013
30015 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 12:20 pm to
quote:

Could this be a situation of his people around him putting out policies while he doesn’t know any better? Like Biden doesn’t know what’s going on, but this is an actual good policy?


So basically JPII after the year 2000?
Posted by LSUnKaty
Katy, TX
Member since Dec 2008
4493 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

It devalues life to that of a transaction
So it would all be OK if the surrogate didn't take a dime?

My wife and I are catholic and went through IVF to have our son. Does that make him a "constructed" person?

No, more like a miracle. He's a human being with exactly the same dignity and right to live as you. We didn't construct anything, just gave nature a little help. And we made sure no embryos were destroyed. All were give the same chance at life.

As a result of that pregnancy, which my wife carried, her condition subsided and we were able to have our daughter naturally - another miracle.

I can not see how that can be placed on the same moral level as abortion or the self mutilation of gender transforming therapy/surgery.
Posted by Tiger Prawn
Member since Dec 2016
22892 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 12:27 pm to
quote:

You're kind of lumping surrogacy with Adoption. They are not the same thing. life shouldn't be created to be sold - and that is effectively what it is.

A person who has a baby, but wants to give it up, is very different from hiring a person to deliver a constructed baby.

Surrogacy turns child-birth into a manipulative right and incurs consumerism and all of the other things that come with it. It devalues life to that of a transaction.

What about someone who wants to have their own biological child but is unable to carry a pregnancy?

I'm very good friends with a couple who had to go the surrogate pregnancy route because she had part of her uterus removed due to cancer. They have 2 biological kids of their own now that would've never been possible without a surrogate.
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
104887 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 12:31 pm to
quote:

He didn't write that. Given how ill he has looked for quite some time, someone else is pulling the strings.




If this is true, that's actually much more encouraging than if this was his statement.

I've long assumed that it's a lot of his "underlings" pushing a lot of the wackier shite coming out of his papacy. If there's a group with enough clout to publicly push something otherwise IN HIS NAME, it would be a better situation there than I imagined.

Who knows, though?
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67709 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 12:34 pm to
The Pope has never been as “pro gay” as our media has attempted to portray him. That reputation has mostly been based on mistranslated or purposefully misconstrued statements.

Dude is still a commie, just not a gay commie
Posted by Freauxzen
Washington
Member since Feb 2006
37758 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

So it would all be OK if the surrogate didn't take a dime?

My wife and I are catholic and went through IVF to have our son. Does that make him a "constructed" person?

No, more like a miracle. He's a human being with exactly the same dignity and right to live as you. We didn't construct anything, just gave nature a little help. And we made sure no embryos were destroyed. All were give the same chance at life.

As a result of that pregnancy, which my wife carried, her condition subsided and we were able to have our daughter naturally - another miracle.

I can not see how that can be placed on the same moral level as abortion or the self mutilation of gender transforming therapy/surgery.



It's an incredibly delicate subject, unfortunately. Two things: You're too close to this to have this discussion, emotional landmines won't lead to good ends

Second, the simple thing is that the ends don't justify the means, and Catholic teaching aligns with that.

ETA: And it isn't on the same "moral level," but it is in the same wheelhouse of an approach to life that creates a lot of dissonance.
This post was edited on 4/9/24 at 2:17 pm
Posted by Freauxzen
Washington
Member since Feb 2006
37758 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 1:47 pm to
quote:

What about someone who wants to have their own biological child but is unable to carry a pregnancy?


It's a cross to bear, unfortunately.

quote:

I'm very good friends with a couple who had to go the surrogate pregnancy route because she had part of her uterus removed due to cancer. They have 2 biological kids of their own now that would've never been possible without a surrogate.



See above.
This post was edited on 4/9/24 at 2:04 pm
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
49876 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 2:20 pm to
Listen, buddy. We have tolerated a LOT of Pope-bashing around here but accusing him of shitting in the punchbowl is going TOO FAR.

ADMINS: SEND THIS MISCREANT A WARNING (the OP, not the Pope)
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
103380 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 2:47 pm to
Lololololololol
Posted by TigerBaitOohHaHa
Member since Jan 2023
832 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 4:15 pm to
quote:

I don’t understand the opposition to surrogacy. If life is sacrosanct, why do we care how it arrives? It’s not like we’re doing surrogacy for child slaves. These babies are given to loving parents.


I personally feel renting a womb is gross, especially when so many children need homes. However, the real reason Catholics are in opposition to the process (including IVF) is that, for economic reasons, it leaves spare embryos that either sit in a freezer for eternity or get destroyed.

This post was edited on 4/9/24 at 4:16 pm
Posted by Sofaking2
Member since Apr 2023
9611 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 5:15 pm to
I am stunned and pleasantly surprised by this. As a Catholic, I could care less what adults do to their own body. My issue is with the children. Chopping children up should be off limits. These are the most disgusting people in the world.
Posted by Sofaking2
Member since Apr 2023
9611 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 5:20 pm to
quote:

The Pope has never been as “pro gay” as our media has attempted to portray him. That reputation has mostly been based on mistranslated or purposefully misconstrued statements.

Nah, this is a load of crap. You have James Martin, the Jesuit homo defender having personal meetings with the Pope, but he can’t make time for Cardinal Muller. He kisses arse of the gay lobby(lavender mafia) in the Vatican.
Posted by TN Tygah
Member since Nov 2023
5709 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 5:34 pm to
quote:

It said God created man and woman as biologically different, separate beings, and said people must not tinker with that or try to “make oneself God.”


Though I’m not religious, I gotta say I feel bad for Christians who have gotten to the point where they are genuinely surprised that the pope came out with this stance, considering it’s synonymous with Adam and Eve which is pretty much the most fundamental and essential thing about when humans showed up in the Bible.
Posted by Houag80
Member since Jul 2019
11442 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 5:47 pm to
Give him time.
Posted by TenWheelsForJesus
Member since Jan 2018
7732 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 6:53 pm to
quote:

Surrogacy turns child-birth into a manipulative right and incurs consumerism and all of the other things that come with it. It devalues life to that of a transaction.


It's not much of a stretch to go from this to not seeking medical care at all. That too involves consumerism and the manipulation of life.
Posted by VOR
Member since Apr 2009
64435 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 6:58 pm to
I guess I’ll sleep better tonight knowing that some old man in Rome is standing guard against the transgender hordes descending upon us…
Posted by Freauxzen
Washington
Member since Feb 2006
37758 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 7:06 pm to
quote:

It's not much of a stretch to go from this to not seeking medical care at all. That too involves consumerism and the manipulation of life.




No. There is a huge difference- "life," meaning the creation of it, not the existence of it. Those are different. There's no need to split hairs here. Renting a womb and renting eggs is vastly, enormously different than cough medicine.

If you view them as the same - then yeah that's already the problem with the world.
Posted by Foch
Member since Feb 2015
780 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:15 pm to
quote:

don’t understand the opposition to surrogacy


You fundamentally don't understand the Chruch's position on IVF or Natural Law foundations for the rejection of surrogate wombs.
Posted by Foch
Member since Feb 2015
780 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:22 pm to

quote:

dont be fooled, he has and there is more to this than we know because he is 100% a groomer for life.



His position seems pretty consistent to me...


quote:

[from 10/2016]
"To change the mentality -- I call this ideological colonization," the Pope said.

The Pope said he still spends time with transgender people, leading them closer to God.

In August, the Pope called the teaching of gender identity theory "terrible."

"Today, in schools they are teaching this to children -- to children! -- that everyone can choose their gender," Pope Francis said.





quote:

[from 01/2015]
"The family is threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine very institution of marriage, by relativism, by the culture of the ephemeral, by a lack of openness to life."


quote:

[from 02/2015]
"Let's think of the nuclear arms, of the possibility to annihilate in a few instants a very high number of human beings. Let's think also of genetic manipulation, of the manipulation of life, or of the gender theory, that does not recognize the order of creation."
Posted by Foch
Member since Feb 2015
780 posts
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:45 pm to
quote:

However, the real reason Catholics are in opposition to the process (including IVF) is that, for economic reasons, it leaves spare embryos that either sit in a freezer for eternity or get destroyed.


Beyond IVF, there are other concerns with renting the flesh of another to satisfy desires for motherhood and fatherhood.
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