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Started By
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re: Uh oh...everyone's favorite "pro gay" Pope just shite in the punchbowl
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:49 pm to Foch
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:49 pm to Foch
quote:
Beyond IVF, there are other concerns with renting the flesh of another to satisfy desires for motherhood and fatherhood.
This.
It turns the human subject, into the human object - slave to the whims of desire. And manufactured for that reason. And that's what Catholic ethics in particular has a massive problem with.
This is an ethical and philosophical discussion, not an emotional one.
0
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:49 pm to udtiger
The pope figuratively shite in the punch bowl. Dementia Joe does that literally.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:49 pm to Tiger Prawn
quote:
What about someone who wants to have their own biological child but is unable to carry a pregnancy?
Might (an ability to do that which is not in accordance with the Natural Law) does not equal right.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 9:17 pm to udtiger
quote:
God’s plan
Funny.
He created a race of dullards without knowledge, and left them alone unsupervised in a garden with a tree of knowledge, that made good looking fruit. He screwed that one up and didn’t even see it coming.
Then he sent his heavenly sons to earth to watch over the human race, but they screwed the mortal women and created a superhuman race and taught magic and sorcery to the people and so God had to wipe them all out. But he couldn’t just give all the evil ones magic heart attacks. He had to kill all people, all animals, and all plants and reset his creation by flooding the earth. His plans keep going awry.
He then creates a hell, and the only way he can “save” humans from an eternity of torture was to kill himself so that he can atone for the sins of the flawed creation rather than just being capable of forgiving people without someone having to die.
He’s a great planner.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 9:29 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
Funny.
He created a race of dullards without knowledge, and left them alone unsupervised in a garden with a tree of knowledge, that made good looking fruit. He screwed that one up and didn’t even see it coming.
Then he sent his heavenly sons to earth to watch over the human race, but they screwed the mortal women and created a superhuman race and taught magic and sorcery to the people and so God had to wipe them all out. But he couldn’t just give all the evil ones magic heart attacks. He had to kill all people, all animals, and all plants and reset his creation by flooding the earth. His plans keep going awry.
He then creates a hell, and the only way he can “save” humans from an eternity of torture was to kill himself so that he can atone for the sins of the flawed creation rather than just being capable of forgiving people without someone having to die.
He’s a great planner.
It's not even a funny schtick.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 9:37 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
What about someone who wants to have their own biological child but is unable to carry a pregnancy?
quote:
It's a cross to bear, unfortunately
As a Catholic, it is hard to accept the proclamations of a Pope who refuses to excommunicate the likes of Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi who use their power and authority to make the act of abortion a possibility and publicly claim to be a Catholic. Yet here he is telling a family that the very act of bringing a child into this world via surrogacy is a sin.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 9:38 pm to udtiger
The alphabet people think they are all the same, but the reality is gay and lesbian is FAR more accepted than trans.
Most people can understand if you like someone different from whom you are supposed to like.
No one can understand trying to be a different gender than you are.
Most people can understand if you like someone different from whom you are supposed to like.
No one can understand trying to be a different gender than you are.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 9:45 pm to Cuz413
quote:
As a Catholic, it is hard to accept the proclamations of a Pope who refuses to excommunicate the likes of Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi who use their power and authority to make the act of abortion a possibility and publicly claim to be a Catholic. Yet here he is telling a family that the very act of bringing a child into this world via surrogacy is a sin.
Will the surrogacy is a bit of a derailment, but....
None of these decisions are Pope Francis' original thoughts or interpretations. You can't look at it as Francis "owning" or "condemning" things.
Pope's do not excommunicate that often (and it's usually clergy they are working on), and for what Biden and Nancy do - it's tough to say they should be. As bad as they are, there are many Catholics equally guilty. Or equally holding opinions. Politicians have stages, but that does not separate them. They answer to a higher power - and the church can definitely survive their influence, minimal as it is.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 9:50 pm to Cuz413
quote:
As a Catholic, it is hard to accept the proclamations of a Pope who
quote:
Yet here he is telling a family that the very act of bringing a child into this world via surrogacy is a sin.
So would you prefer he add to his silence on these "Catholics" by rejecting fundamental Church teaching (in other words, Truth) on God's plan for the ordered creation of life? He should just say surrogacy is fine? IVF is ok? Genetic engineering is permissible?
Wishing for a public rebuke of famous pro-aborts is sane and logical.
You, by making yourself your own Magisterium, (you appear to support surrogacy "the act of bringing a child into the world") are trying to justify a disordered view by contrasting the false righteousness of your position with the Pope's silence on another.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 10:06 pm to Cuz413
quote:
Yet here he is telling a family that the very act of bringing a child into this world via surrogacy is a sin.
And to bring it around to thread this statement and saying something like "making sure that someone's body matches their soul" or whatever the argument is for transgenderism - it's the same thing.
That's NOT what surrogacy is doing specifically, within reality. This is a liberal tactic, as the words are completely built from emotion, to obfuscate the truth in emotionally charged language for effect. People stay detached from the reality of abortion for the exact same reason - the language used around it is inaccurate. Intentionally.
This post was edited on 4/9/24 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 4/9/24 at 10:19 pm to Foch
quote:
Wishing for a public rebuke of famous pro-aborts is sane and logical.
It should be expected from the church leader. He didn't hold his tongue when criticizing Trump for wanting to build a wall when he lives behind a wall in the Vatican.
He also said we have a MORAL obligation to take the CV19 vaccine.
So he can step into the political arena to rebuke one President, but not the other? Over the right to life of a child no less from a pol who claims to be Catholic.
quote:Is this for profit? Or as an act to bring another family a baby?
He should just say surrogacy is fine?
quote:Maybe, I don't know. I've never thought about the moral implications of people wanting to have children as a moral question.
IVF is ok?
quote:????
Genetic engineering is permissible?
I'm struggling with the messaging about shaming families while he just sanctioned Priests blessing gay marriages. If a man and a woman can't have surrogates or use IVF to have more children, how can gay marriage be ok in the church?
Mind you, I'm still salty over the church covering up abuses by priests. Church leadership put the value of the church above the lives of abused children. It is hard for me to accept what is righteous and what is not from the Vatican after that.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 10:38 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
It's not even a funny schtick.
But it's so edgy, any 14 year old would admire SquirrelMeister's novel and rebellious take
This post was edited on 4/9/24 at 10:39 pm
Posted on 4/9/24 at 10:40 pm to udtiger
quote:
The Vatican on Monday declared gender-affirming surgery and surrogacy as grave violations of human dignity, putting them on par with abortion and euthanasia as practices that it said reject God’s plan for human life
quote:
In its most eagerly anticipated section, the Vatican repeated its rejection of “gender theory,” or the idea that one’s biological sex can change. It said God created man and woman as biologically different, separate beings, and said people must not tinker with that or try to “make oneself God.”
Seriously what took the Pope so long to come out with this?? The Pope needs to be ahead of the curve for his flock.
We really need our religious leaders to step up and warn us. Otherwise what do we need them for??
Posted on 4/9/24 at 10:47 pm to Cuz413
quote:
I've never thought about the moral implications of people wanting to have children as a moral question.
Key word there.
quote:
while he just sanctioned Priests blessing gay marriages.
I don't like defending Pope Francis when he makes so many mis-steps. And this is one of them. But he didn't precisely do this. and you know that right?
quote:
If a man and a woman can't have surrogates or use IVF to have more children, how can gay marriage be ok in the church?
Neither is ok.
quote:
Mind you, I'm still salty over the church covering up abuses by priests. Church leadership put the value of the church above the lives of abused children. It is hard for me to accept what is righteous and what is not from the Vatican after that.
That's a fair stance. And will be a deep stain for a long, long time. Unfortunately, Francis is not the Pope that can start much healing given his lack of firm stances on almost anything.
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