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re: Mikal Bridges developing into a true #1 option
Posted on 3/1/24 at 10:22 am to shel311
Posted on 3/1/24 at 10:22 am to shel311
Don't compare BI to Herb, Dyson and Trey. They play much much much different roles on the team, and are defended completely different. No one will ever help on any of those guys when they drive to the goal.
and i agree he should be getting more shots at the rim, but what he's doing isnt' some huge outlier for the role he is in on our team.
Percent of shots from 0-3'
Devin Booker 13.1%
Kevin Durant 12.9%
Jamal Murray 14.6%
DeAron Fox 15.0%
Kawhi 16.3%
Paul George 12.9%
Anthony Edwards 22.8%
Jayson Tatum 21.9%
Jaylen Brown 22.7%
Middleton over 15% once in the last 9 seasons
BI at 14.6%
and i agree he should be getting more shots at the rim, but what he's doing isnt' some huge outlier for the role he is in on our team.
Percent of shots from 0-3'
Devin Booker 13.1%
Kevin Durant 12.9%
Jamal Murray 14.6%
DeAron Fox 15.0%
Kawhi 16.3%
Paul George 12.9%
Anthony Edwards 22.8%
Jayson Tatum 21.9%
Jaylen Brown 22.7%
Middleton over 15% once in the last 9 seasons
BI at 14.6%
Posted on 3/1/24 at 10:54 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:Sure, but don't compare BI's skillset and ability to get to the rim to those dudes either. Even with more attention, he should be able to get to the rim at a higher clip, he generally chooses not to and settled for midrange shots more often than he should.
Don't compare BI to Herb, Dyson and Trey. They play much much much different roles on the team, and are defended completely different. No one will ever help on any of those guys when they drive to the goal.
quote:Of those 11 players, BI is 10th in scoring efficiency.
and i agree he should be getting more shots at the rim, but what he's doing isnt' some huge outlier for the role he is in on our team.
Percent of shots from 0-3'
Devin Booker 13.1%
Kevin Durant 12.9%
Jamal Murray 14.6%
DeAron Fox 15.0%
Kawhi 16.3%
Paul George 12.9%
Anthony Edwards 22.8%
Jayson Tatum 21.9%
Jaylen Brown 22.7%
Middleton over 15% once in the last 9 seasons
BI at 14.6%
From the list of 11, BI only has a higher % of shots 0-3 feet than 3 of those dudes...and 2 of them are just old at this point, so understandable for PG and KD to be on the lower end. So then, only Booker is left as a guy who has a lower %, and Booker is still an elite level efficient scorer.
Posted on 3/1/24 at 11:08 am to shel311
Devin Booker 61.3% on 30.3% usage
Kevin Durant 63.5% on 29.2% usage
Jamal Murray 58.6% on 27.3% usage
DeAron Fox 57.1% on 31.3% usage
Kawhi 63.5% on 26.1% usage
Paul George 59.2% on 26.7% usage
Anthony Edwards 58.8% on 32.4% usage
Jayson Tatum 60.4% on 30.0% usage
Jaylen Brown 58.2% on 28.0% usage
Middleton 59.0% on 23.8% usage
Brandon Ingram 57.8% on 27.6% usage
It's not like he's way off from most of them. And BI isn't an all-nba player like 9 of those guys are.
Kevin Durant 63.5% on 29.2% usage
Jamal Murray 58.6% on 27.3% usage
DeAron Fox 57.1% on 31.3% usage
Kawhi 63.5% on 26.1% usage
Paul George 59.2% on 26.7% usage
Anthony Edwards 58.8% on 32.4% usage
Jayson Tatum 60.4% on 30.0% usage
Jaylen Brown 58.2% on 28.0% usage
Middleton 59.0% on 23.8% usage
Brandon Ingram 57.8% on 27.6% usage
It's not like he's way off from most of them. And BI isn't an all-nba player like 9 of those guys are.
Posted on 3/1/24 at 11:15 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
BI is involved in a PnR as the ball handler just 6 times a game and has a points per possession of .94
Zion is the ball handler in a PnR just 3.8 times a game and has a ppp of 0.99.
It makes zero sense that Zion isn't used as the PnR ball handler more.
He is 4th in FG% out of the PnR
3rd in FT rate
2nd in And one rate
And this dumbass coaching staff has him getting the 60th most PnR ballhandler possessions in the league.
Posted on 3/1/24 at 11:34 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:My thing is, I feel he has the skillset and talent to be better and closer to some of those dudes.
It's not like he's way off from most of them. And BI isn't an all-nba player like 9 of those guys are.
If he simply changed his shot profile, he'd get a decent amount closer.
CJ did the exact same thing this season, removed the middies for the most part from his shot profile. And CJ is now having the most efficient scoring season of his career, which is also more efficient than any BI season.
I guess my question is, and don't take this the wrong way but not sure how else to say it, why keep replying with excuses on why BI can't do it? If CJ can do it, BI can do it. I can't think of a single reason why BI simply can't change his profile and thus become a more efficient scorer getting to a .600 TS%.
He can, he just hasn't done it.
I think it comes down to thinking BI has maxed out his output based on his skillset vs thinking BI can be even better than he has been.
Posted on 3/1/24 at 11:43 am to shel311
I just think Willie enables him and gives him complete freedom to take whatever shot he wants whether it's efficient or not. You just have to look at his first two years here to see how his other coaches utilized him and you see a massive difference. He's leaning on the mid range more and more with every season and It's completely up to Ingram to tweak his shot profile just like it was up to CJ to change it. I don't think he'll ever do it because that's just his game and everyone else will have to deal with it.
Posted on 3/1/24 at 11:48 am to Epic Cajun
I wonder if a lot of it has to due with the fact that his man is sagging off of him so much that the actual PnR isn't really registering most of the time.
You can't really set an effective pick on a guy whos playing 8' off the guy.
I think what's more irritating is that Zion has only set 17 ball screens all year.
If Zion doesn't have the ball in his hands, or isnt' involved in a screen, then he's as close to worthless as it gets out there.
We almost exclusively use JV to set the screen. WHy not let Zion set the screen, and have JV waiting in the short corner to hit an open jumper. He's shooting 58.8% from the left short corner area this year, and he's shooting 45.5% from the left top wing 3.
Hell you could do a staggered screen were JV sets the first pick for BI and then goes to the 3 point line on the left side above the FT line. Then Zion sets the next screen for BI and rolls to the goal with Herb in the right corner 3 where he hitting that shot at 56% this year, and then you have CJ on the left corner 3. ANd if the play breaks down then JV goes set that down pick for CJ popping up.
You could literally run that play every time down the court and just take what the defense gives you.
The fact that Zion rarely ever sets a screen for BI is so stupid.
and here's an interesting stat
WHen JV is the defender of the roll man in a PnR situation, he's one of the best in the league at .73 PPP
The Centers ahead of him are Christian Wood, Wendell Carter Jr, Capela, and Day'Ron Sharpe, and JV gets almost 3 times as many plays as those guys do per game. His eFG% against the PnR is 36% which is good for 4th best among centers and he's defended the PnR more than 3 times as many times as the other 3 guys (WCJ, Sharpe, Wood)
You can't really set an effective pick on a guy whos playing 8' off the guy.
I think what's more irritating is that Zion has only set 17 ball screens all year.
If Zion doesn't have the ball in his hands, or isnt' involved in a screen, then he's as close to worthless as it gets out there.
We almost exclusively use JV to set the screen. WHy not let Zion set the screen, and have JV waiting in the short corner to hit an open jumper. He's shooting 58.8% from the left short corner area this year, and he's shooting 45.5% from the left top wing 3.
Hell you could do a staggered screen were JV sets the first pick for BI and then goes to the 3 point line on the left side above the FT line. Then Zion sets the next screen for BI and rolls to the goal with Herb in the right corner 3 where he hitting that shot at 56% this year, and then you have CJ on the left corner 3. ANd if the play breaks down then JV goes set that down pick for CJ popping up.
You could literally run that play every time down the court and just take what the defense gives you.
The fact that Zion rarely ever sets a screen for BI is so stupid.
and here's an interesting stat
WHen JV is the defender of the roll man in a PnR situation, he's one of the best in the league at .73 PPP
The Centers ahead of him are Christian Wood, Wendell Carter Jr, Capela, and Day'Ron Sharpe, and JV gets almost 3 times as many plays as those guys do per game. His eFG% against the PnR is 36% which is good for 4th best among centers and he's defended the PnR more than 3 times as many times as the other 3 guys (WCJ, Sharpe, Wood)
Posted on 3/1/24 at 11:51 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:Makes sense. I don't get why we never seem to do the Draymond dribble hand off when that happens.
I wonder if a lot of it has to due with the fact that his man is sagging off of him so much that the actual PnR isn't really registering most of the time.
You can't really set an effective pick on a guy whos playing 8' off the guy.
Posted on 3/1/24 at 12:11 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I think what's more irritating is that Zion has only set 17 ball screens all year.
If Zion doesn't have the ball in his hands, or isnt' involved in a screen, then he's as close to worthless as it gets out there.
Thank you. That's one of my biggest issues with the BI gripes on usage. It's hard for him to involve Zion when Zion isn't actively participating in the offensive sets.
This post was edited on 3/1/24 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 3/1/24 at 12:16 pm to shel311
quote:
I can't think of a single reason why BI simply can't change his profile and thus become a more efficient scorer getting to a .600 TS%.
b/c he's not really a good 3 point shooter, and he doesn't get his shot off anywhere near as quick as those other guys do.
everyone wants him taking more 3's, but he's always got the ball in his hands, and he's a pretty terrible three point shooter off the dribble. His catch and shoot 3's aren't quick at all, as he always seems to have to step into the 3 and he takes forever to shoot it. How often do you see BI catch and shoot a 3 without moving his feet? He's always stepping into the catch and shooting.
So what kind of 3 point shot do you want him taking more of? He's actually been decent on pull up 3's this year, for the first time in his career, so he has improved that part of his game.
I can't see the actual percentage, but my guestimation is that he is shooting around 40% from 3 when he takes the shot with more than 7 seconds left on the shot clock, regardless if it's C&S or pull up, and when there is under 7 seconds he's shooting 25%. The problem with that is around 25-30% of his threes are coming with under 7 seconds left.
I talk about that aspect of his game all the time, where the play breaks down and he has to get a shot up late in the shot clock all by himself. That has to stop happenign so often.
I think if you want to see him become a more efficient scorer, then he has to take more 3's early in the shot clock, especially in transition, and our offense has to stop putting so much pressure on him to get a shot off late in the shot clock every game. Too often BI is taking the ball up the court slowly after a miss. It needs to be Zion or Herb or Jose or Naji off the miss trying to push the pace, not BI.
BI's 2 point shots go from almost 60% when he has 2 dribbles or less, to below 50% when he dribbles the ball 3 times or more.
We've been using BI on the ball so much, and he's such a better player off the ball when we are running plays for him. He's at 1.2PPP when he's coming off a screen off the ball, and 60% eFG. and he only averages 1.6 possessions like that a game. Even his dribble handoff is at 1.17 PPP 56.8% eFG, and he does that only 1.6 times per game.
Posted on 3/1/24 at 12:17 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
e's leaning on the mid range more and more with every season and It's completely up to Ingram to tweak his shot profile just like it was up to CJ to change it.
Maybe playing next to the biggest paint-clogger in the NBA has something to do with it.
Posted on 3/1/24 at 12:20 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
I bet they'd run a lot more ball screens if Zion takes mid range shots and 3s and BI takes pull up 3s regularly.
Posted on 3/1/24 at 12:20 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
He played without him quite a bit no?
Posted on 3/1/24 at 12:26 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
He played without him quite a bit no?
Yes, and he's put up borderline all-star offensive numbers, so what's your point?
Shel is getting completely lost in his analytics and ignoring all of the context of defense. Of course it's easier for Herb to get shots at the rim. His guy is sagging onto BI or Zion, then running him hard off the line when they pass it to him, opening up a lane. BI's guy isn't sagging off of him to help on anyone. He's also not just sitting in the corner waiting for a dish for a short corner 3 or drive on the close out.
Context, boys, get some.
This post was edited on 3/1/24 at 12:28 pm
Posted on 3/1/24 at 12:29 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
So what's the excuse for 2020? He had a pretty good year didn't he?
Posted on 3/1/24 at 12:31 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
So what's the excuse for 2020? He had a pretty good year didn't he?
Excuse for what? Not scoring in the exact manner some posters on Tigerdroppings want him to? Excuse for being an NBA All-Star?
This post was edited on 3/1/24 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 3/1/24 at 12:33 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
That BI can give you the ideal shot profile while allowing point Zion to be the focal point and still have great production. It's been done. And should be replicated especially with better talent on the roster. Simple.
Posted on 3/1/24 at 12:36 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
That BI can give you the ideal shot profile while allowing point Zion to be the focal point and still have great production. It's been done. And should be replicated especially with better talent on the roster. Simple.
If only our other star player gave consistent effort on offense. That Zion pick stat that Teddy posted is an enormous indictment of Zion and the coaches in my opinion. Hell, Matt Ryan has probably set 17 screens this year.
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