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Last nights offense
Posted on 1/20/24 at 7:30 am
Posted on 1/20/24 at 7:30 am
Captain obvious here: the shots just weren't falling and it is what it is on a night like that
But we really had problems with spacing and ball movement. Several just clunky exchanges, and Joel and AD kept highlighting our inability to draw their defender out of the paint that was clogging everything up because we couldn't make them pay for the disrespect
Maybe we could've tried some crazy small lineup with Zion at the five to spread them out, but it would've only been a temporary fix. Booker was on fire and we just didn't have an answer. And with KD's potential threatening, I guess it's just pick your poison
Had we had one guy, just one guy, able to hit the three last night it could've opened up something in the lane to create FTs and consistency. But that was too much to ask for, and sometimes you just have nights like that
But we really had problems with spacing and ball movement. Several just clunky exchanges, and Joel and AD kept highlighting our inability to draw their defender out of the paint that was clogging everything up because we couldn't make them pay for the disrespect
Maybe we could've tried some crazy small lineup with Zion at the five to spread them out, but it would've only been a temporary fix. Booker was on fire and we just didn't have an answer. And with KD's potential threatening, I guess it's just pick your poison
Had we had one guy, just one guy, able to hit the three last night it could've opened up something in the lane to create FTs and consistency. But that was too much to ask for, and sometimes you just have nights like that
This post was edited on 1/20/24 at 7:31 am
2
Posted on 1/20/24 at 7:42 am to heatwave
This team lacks high level ball handling and it seems to show when good teams try hard on defense. I’m not sure how you solve for this, but it feels like BI at PG is going to fail in the playoffs. The only solution I see is trading a starter for a high level PG.
This post was edited on 1/20/24 at 7:46 am
Posted on 1/20/24 at 7:55 am to TigerinATL
The team lacks a superstar to take over and lead us when everything falls to shite against good teams. Our stars are great when everything is going well. But when things around them aren’t working- shots not falling, turnovers, no energy, etc.- Theres no absolutely no leadership by both our stars to turn the game around.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 7:56 am to TigerinATL
That is definitely a reality
Jose is incredible energy and spark, but he isn't the PG you're talking about. Daniels certainly isn't it yet. He might get there, eventually but he isn't there today
BI is definitely what they are banking on to create with today's team. Maybe if Zion keeps developing his 3 ball and letting it fly it can help BIs ability to create by opening up the lane
Zion is 6-14 (43%) from 3. Will be interesting to see how that number continues with more volume
Jose is incredible energy and spark, but he isn't the PG you're talking about. Daniels certainly isn't it yet. He might get there, eventually but he isn't there today
BI is definitely what they are banking on to create with today's team. Maybe if Zion keeps developing his 3 ball and letting it fly it can help BIs ability to create by opening up the lane
Zion is 6-14 (43%) from 3. Will be interesting to see how that number continues with more volume
Posted on 1/20/24 at 8:01 am to Pels_Yaz
We have seen BI step up in in times in the regular season
But overall, your take is accurate as of today and it would be hard to argue differently.
Jimmy Butler all of a sudden became a superstar and Harden was able to shine brighter when he left the Thunder, so it isn't impossible... but those are small examples and there are bunch of examples representing it not working out
We definitely don't have that singular alpha the guys look to
But overall, your take is accurate as of today and it would be hard to argue differently.
Jimmy Butler all of a sudden became a superstar and Harden was able to shine brighter when he left the Thunder, so it isn't impossible... but those are small examples and there are bunch of examples representing it not working out
We definitely don't have that singular alpha the guys look to
Posted on 1/20/24 at 8:15 am to heatwave
quote:
We definitely don't have that singular alpha the guys look to
And to me thats what I found most alarming. If you listen to Tim Legler- he makes a great point. He thinks we’re the only playoff team where no one really knows who our best player is. And when we face these top contending teams it gets exposed brutally. Who we are? Our identity? Who’s our alpha or leader? As fans we’re just left with more questions than answers after brutal losses like these.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 8:35 am to TigerinATL
Tyus Jones could be available
Posted on 1/20/24 at 8:37 am to TigerinATL
quote:
This team lacks high level ball handling and it seems to show when good teams try hard on defense. I’m not sure how you solve for this, but it feels like BI at PG is going to fail in the playoffs. The only solution I see is trading a starter for a high level PG.
Absolutely on display last night. Was also true when we played Houston and Memphis.
Point Zion and Point BI simply do not have the handle required, especially BI. CJ can be effective when his shot is falling, but we have structured our offense this season to put him off-ball. Jose's and Dyson have the necessary handle, but they lack the overall offensive skill to create scoring opportunities. Hawk is more of an off-ball creator than an on-ball one.
So, yeah, if our opponents press and are aggressive at the point of attack, we're dead in the water. All opponents have to do to stop us is pressure the ball.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 8:39 am to GOP_Tiger
I really think Jose is a pretty good ball handler and distributor. I'd love to see him more in the pick and roll
Posted on 1/20/24 at 8:39 am to GOP_Tiger
BI fumbled the ball several times at the top of the key attempting to penetrate and score or pass, on one possession he fumbled it twice
Posted on 1/20/24 at 8:40 am to TigerinATL
I am beginning to feel this team needs a starting level PG as well for the reasons you listed but also because Willie seems intent on playing Zion like a post man with the starters. We are simply unable to involve him in the offense at the level we need to with this group because we either don’t see how or physically can’t. Jonas has had at least a turnover a game recently trying to get the ball to Zion. Herb, Trey, and CJ just can’t get it to him. BI can but just doesn’t see it at times. I was at the game last night. Zion had 5 or 6 quick spins where lobs were open that we didn’t even see. We allowed Phoenix to guard him with Allen, Beal, and Gordon. We had no way to get him the ball. Obviously, we couldn’t hit a shot but we had no counter to go to. Clunky and very, very frustrating.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 8:54 am to ghost2most
quote:
I really think Jose is a pretty good ball handler and distributor. I'd love to see him more in the pick and roll
If he were running it with Jarrett Allen, I'd agree with you. But JV is too slow now and can't jump. He's not a good roll man.
Jose running P&R would also work if we had December 2022 Zion, but the Zion that we have right now isn't athletic enough as a roll man.
But, last night, we should've at least tried some of the BI to Zion P&R that has worked in the past.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 9:23 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
The team lacks a superstar to take over and lead us
I blame the FO for trying to feed BI as being the lead man. You need to trade ingram and give the keys to Z.
It’s almost a lose lose because of Z’s injury history but they have to make a decision soon
Posted on 1/20/24 at 9:46 am to TigerinATL
quote:
This team lacks high level ball handling and it seems to show when good teams try hard on defense. I’m not sure how you solve for this, but it feels like BI at PG is going to fail in the playoffs. The only solution I see is trading a starter for a high level PG.
If high level ball handlers were plentiful, everyone would have one. A guard that is super ball dominant and explosive to take over a game typically won’t do well in a ball movement offense or being a primary distributor to all our talent.
So it’s not that straight forward bc it’s gotta be the right blend of skill set to truly fit this team.
Overall though, there’s no denying that the lack of explosiveness, handles, craftiness and quickness to beat a defender off the dribble to force defensive adjustments is a BIG PROBLEM. It was on display last night for sure
Posted on 1/20/24 at 9:54 am to TriggaTrey
quote:
Overall though, there’s no denying that the lack of explosiveness, handles, craftiness and quickness to beat a defender off the dribble to force defensive adjustments is a BIG PROBLEM. It was on display last night for sure
Lot of this happens because there are too many guys that intiate the offense and there is no primary creator. Again, I point back to last year when BI got hurt and how point Ziin worked so well. But its hard if its point Zion for half a quarter, point BI for another quarter, point CJ for 5 minutes and then point Dyson for another 5 minutes. Honestly what are we doing here?
Posted on 1/20/24 at 10:49 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Lot of this happens because there are too many guys that intiate the offense and there is no primary creator.
This isn’t necessarily the case with the caveat that the guys actually know what they’re doing offensively with different people initiating the offense because it should be different based on who had the ball.
Whether this is a problem or not is hard to know without being in the building. I just think we need that one guy who initiates and is able to create off the dribble consistently down the stretch so there’s no guessing about who should be where and who should be doing what and what should be expected of each person in crunch time
Posted on 1/20/24 at 10:54 am to TriggaTrey
quote:
This isn’t necessarily the case with the caveat that the guys actually know what they’re doing offensively with different people initiating the offense because it should be different based on who had the ball.
Agreed but before we do this we can’t even get the right personnel on the court with the right guys. For instance, why is Trey subbing in for Zion? Why doesn’t Zion when he intiates primarily play with shooters? Why are there lineups with Herb Dyson and Naji?
What I’m saying is hard to know your role when someone is the intiator when you’re in the wrong place to begin with.
Posted on 1/20/24 at 11:28 am to heatwave
Sucks we were one pick away from getting Tyrese Haliburton 
Posted on 1/20/24 at 12:01 pm to Pels_Yaz
Zion should be the primary ball handler when BI is in the game. BI should be the one plying off ball.
BI should become the primary ball handler when he is in the game and Zion is out.
Very simple. If you are a perimeter guy not named Zion and can’t shoot 3pt shots on the team you are worthless and should be looked to be traded.
Borrego said the identity of the team was a 3pt team. Nights like last night will happen. They shoot closer to normal and the game is totally different.
They need to consolidate their talent. Obviously Hawkins or Murphy need to be held onto since they are your elite 3pt shooters. JV and BI need extensions soon. They are definitely really good players, but neither have shown they should make more than their current contract.
BI should become the primary ball handler when he is in the game and Zion is out.
Very simple. If you are a perimeter guy not named Zion and can’t shoot 3pt shots on the team you are worthless and should be looked to be traded.
Borrego said the identity of the team was a 3pt team. Nights like last night will happen. They shoot closer to normal and the game is totally different.
They need to consolidate their talent. Obviously Hawkins or Murphy need to be held onto since they are your elite 3pt shooters. JV and BI need extensions soon. They are definitely really good players, but neither have shown they should make more than their current contract.
This post was edited on 1/20/24 at 12:02 pm
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