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Started By
Message
Shellenberger on how absurd claims of a J6 coup was - and remains
Posted on 12/23/23 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 12/23/23 at 12:20 pm
Michael Shellenberger
@shellenberger
I am sorry I did not speak up earlier against the January 6 propaganda. I thought the claims that it was a coup attempt were too ridiculous to be believed.
I was wrong. Three years of relentless disinformation from state-controlled media convinced half the country that it was something it wasn't.
Here's a thorough debunking of the nonsense by
@ZaidJilani
&
@galexybrane
that I wish I had published years earlier. Please share it with brainwashed friends and family and attempt to de-program them before they abolish our democracy.
LINK
"Years Of Planning Behind Democrats’ Turn Against Democracy
War on Trump shows that the most dangerous people are often those who consider themselves incapable of evil
by
@ZaidJilani
&
@galexybrane
Donna Brazile (left), John Podesta (center), and Rosa Brooks (right) led a 2020 scenario-planning exercise, the “Transition Integrity Project,” aimed at undermining the election.
The Colorado Supreme Court has ruled that former president Donald J. Trump cannot be on the 2024 primary ballot in the state. The Court found that Trump engaged in an insurrection and is therefore disqualified from running for president. The Colorado Supreme Court’s decision was based on Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which was originally intended to keep Confederate officials from holding office.
Yet Trump has never been criminally convicted of participating in an insurrection. Even special counsel Jack Smith, who is leading the Department of Justice (DOJ) investigation into Trump, chose not to indict Trump under the federal statute that criminalizes inciting an insurrection or rebellion, even though this charge was part of the referral from the January 6 committee. Smith could not build the legal case to include the charge, likely because of the First Amendment issues that would come with it.
The Colorado Supreme Court skirted both due process and First Amendment concerns and chose to equate Trump’s political speech with sedition in the American Civil War that killed over 600,000 people.
It’s true that Trump has at times adopted extreme and inflammatory rhetoric, including most recently saying that illegal immigrants are “poisoning the blood” of the country.
But one need not agree with anything Trump says to recognize that in a democratic society, voters still have a right to see him on the ballot. Over one million people voted for Trump in Colorado in 2020. What will those people think when they see that judges are essentially trying to take away their right to vote for the candidate of their choice? Will they really see themselves as included in our democracy, or will they continue to lose faith in the American political system? The answer is obvious.
Democrats’ argument that Trump poses a unique threat to democracy has little basis in reality. Trump’s election denial and machinations were not qualitatively different from the actions of many Democrats. As for the January 6 riot, it was largely the result of security failures, including leaders’ alleged refusal to call in the National Guard.
The court decision comes on the heels of years of panicked warning from Democrats and their allies that it’s Trump who seeks to end American democracy and establish a dictatorship.
In a lengthy essay for The Washington Post that quickly went viral last month, Robert Kagan argued that the United States is a “few short steps, and a matter of months, away from the possibility of dictatorship” led by none other than Donald Trump.
The problem with this prediction is that we already know how Trump responds to all of these things: he was president between 2017 and 2021. When, for instance, the judiciary ruled against Trump – as it did many times during his presidency – he was more likely to send a Tweet than troops.
For instance, when a federal judge temporarily paused Trump’s travel ban targeting visitors from a range of countries in February 2017, Trump took to Twitter to lament, “The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned.”
At the time, Trump took heat for singling out a judge for condemnation. “The President’s attack on Judge James Robart, a Bush appointee who passed with 99 votes, shows a disdain for an independent judiciary that doesn’t always bend to his wishes and a continued lack of respect for the Constitution,” intoned Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer.
But while Trump’s frequent verbal attacks on the judiciary may have been seen as impolitic by his critics, they ultimately didn’t amount to much — certainly not anything like an actual attack. Trump, throughout his presidency, ultimately preserved the separation of powers, and you could even argue that having an adversarial relationship between different branches of government and different parts of political society protects democracy rather than subverts it.
For instance, Kagan warns that “in a regime where the ruler has declared the news media to be ‘enemies of the state,’ the press will find itself under significant and constant pressure. Media owners will discover that a hostile and unbridled president can make their lives unpleasant in all sorts of ways.”
But if the media’s lives were unpleasant thanks to Trump, it’s hard to detect that in their pocketbooks. Newspaper subscriptions soared under the first Trump presidency, and reporters who went out of their way to antagonize the president became instant celebrities with generous book deals.
Even when Trump did take a rare tangible step against press freedom, it didn’t amount to much. When the Trump White House temporarily suspended the press pass of a reporter who engaged in a lengthy verbal dispute with an administration staffer, the courts ruled that the reporter’s due process rights were violated. Whatever names Trump called the press, there is little evidence that he used his powers as president to suppress their critical coverage of his White House.
Meanwhile, his predecessor, Barack Obama, vigorously pursued whistleblowers with the full force of the federal government. As CNN’s Jake Tapper pointed out, the Obama administration “used the Espionage Act to go after whistleblowers who leaked to journalists . . . more than all previous administrations combined.”
One report from the Shorenstein Center at Harvard estimated that 80% of the media coverage during Trump’s first 100 days had a negative tone. That’s hardly a sign that the media was cowed by the presence of Trump in the White House, Tweets and all.
This adversarial relationship between the press and the president is good for democracy, not bad. When the media serve as handmaidens for those in power, we get less scrutiny of policies that we later come to regret – such as excessive COVID-19 policies like school shutdowns and the Iraq war.
One sign that the Republican Party would be moving in an autocratic direction would be if they stopped respecting electoral results and clung to power despite losing elections.
It is true that Trump refused to concede his own defeat, and his rhetoric helped contribute to political chaos around the election and the January 6th riot. Much of the Republican Party, too, has been reticent to admit that Trump lost that election.
@shellenberger
I am sorry I did not speak up earlier against the January 6 propaganda. I thought the claims that it was a coup attempt were too ridiculous to be believed.
I was wrong. Three years of relentless disinformation from state-controlled media convinced half the country that it was something it wasn't.
Here's a thorough debunking of the nonsense by
@ZaidJilani
&
@galexybrane
that I wish I had published years earlier. Please share it with brainwashed friends and family and attempt to de-program them before they abolish our democracy.
LINK
"Years Of Planning Behind Democrats’ Turn Against Democracy
War on Trump shows that the most dangerous people are often those who consider themselves incapable of evil
by
@ZaidJilani
&
@galexybrane
Donna Brazile (left), John Podesta (center), and Rosa Brooks (right) led a 2020 scenario-planning exercise, the “Transition Integrity Project,” aimed at undermining the election.
The Colorado Supreme Court has ruled that former president Donald J. Trump cannot be on the 2024 primary ballot in the state. The Court found that Trump engaged in an insurrection and is therefore disqualified from running for president. The Colorado Supreme Court’s decision was based on Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which was originally intended to keep Confederate officials from holding office.
Yet Trump has never been criminally convicted of participating in an insurrection. Even special counsel Jack Smith, who is leading the Department of Justice (DOJ) investigation into Trump, chose not to indict Trump under the federal statute that criminalizes inciting an insurrection or rebellion, even though this charge was part of the referral from the January 6 committee. Smith could not build the legal case to include the charge, likely because of the First Amendment issues that would come with it.
The Colorado Supreme Court skirted both due process and First Amendment concerns and chose to equate Trump’s political speech with sedition in the American Civil War that killed over 600,000 people.
It’s true that Trump has at times adopted extreme and inflammatory rhetoric, including most recently saying that illegal immigrants are “poisoning the blood” of the country.
But one need not agree with anything Trump says to recognize that in a democratic society, voters still have a right to see him on the ballot. Over one million people voted for Trump in Colorado in 2020. What will those people think when they see that judges are essentially trying to take away their right to vote for the candidate of their choice? Will they really see themselves as included in our democracy, or will they continue to lose faith in the American political system? The answer is obvious.
Democrats’ argument that Trump poses a unique threat to democracy has little basis in reality. Trump’s election denial and machinations were not qualitatively different from the actions of many Democrats. As for the January 6 riot, it was largely the result of security failures, including leaders’ alleged refusal to call in the National Guard.
The court decision comes on the heels of years of panicked warning from Democrats and their allies that it’s Trump who seeks to end American democracy and establish a dictatorship.
In a lengthy essay for The Washington Post that quickly went viral last month, Robert Kagan argued that the United States is a “few short steps, and a matter of months, away from the possibility of dictatorship” led by none other than Donald Trump.
The problem with this prediction is that we already know how Trump responds to all of these things: he was president between 2017 and 2021. When, for instance, the judiciary ruled against Trump – as it did many times during his presidency – he was more likely to send a Tweet than troops.
For instance, when a federal judge temporarily paused Trump’s travel ban targeting visitors from a range of countries in February 2017, Trump took to Twitter to lament, “The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned.”
At the time, Trump took heat for singling out a judge for condemnation. “The President’s attack on Judge James Robart, a Bush appointee who passed with 99 votes, shows a disdain for an independent judiciary that doesn’t always bend to his wishes and a continued lack of respect for the Constitution,” intoned Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer.
But while Trump’s frequent verbal attacks on the judiciary may have been seen as impolitic by his critics, they ultimately didn’t amount to much — certainly not anything like an actual attack. Trump, throughout his presidency, ultimately preserved the separation of powers, and you could even argue that having an adversarial relationship between different branches of government and different parts of political society protects democracy rather than subverts it.
For instance, Kagan warns that “in a regime where the ruler has declared the news media to be ‘enemies of the state,’ the press will find itself under significant and constant pressure. Media owners will discover that a hostile and unbridled president can make their lives unpleasant in all sorts of ways.”
But if the media’s lives were unpleasant thanks to Trump, it’s hard to detect that in their pocketbooks. Newspaper subscriptions soared under the first Trump presidency, and reporters who went out of their way to antagonize the president became instant celebrities with generous book deals.
Even when Trump did take a rare tangible step against press freedom, it didn’t amount to much. When the Trump White House temporarily suspended the press pass of a reporter who engaged in a lengthy verbal dispute with an administration staffer, the courts ruled that the reporter’s due process rights were violated. Whatever names Trump called the press, there is little evidence that he used his powers as president to suppress their critical coverage of his White House.
Meanwhile, his predecessor, Barack Obama, vigorously pursued whistleblowers with the full force of the federal government. As CNN’s Jake Tapper pointed out, the Obama administration “used the Espionage Act to go after whistleblowers who leaked to journalists . . . more than all previous administrations combined.”
One report from the Shorenstein Center at Harvard estimated that 80% of the media coverage during Trump’s first 100 days had a negative tone. That’s hardly a sign that the media was cowed by the presence of Trump in the White House, Tweets and all.
This adversarial relationship between the press and the president is good for democracy, not bad. When the media serve as handmaidens for those in power, we get less scrutiny of policies that we later come to regret – such as excessive COVID-19 policies like school shutdowns and the Iraq war.
One sign that the Republican Party would be moving in an autocratic direction would be if they stopped respecting electoral results and clung to power despite losing elections.
It is true that Trump refused to concede his own defeat, and his rhetoric helped contribute to political chaos around the election and the January 6th riot. Much of the Republican Party, too, has been reticent to admit that Trump lost that election.
15
Posted on 12/23/23 at 12:21 pm to JJJimmyJimJames
But being sore losers about an election isn’t equivalent to being tyrants. Following the 2000 election, many Democrats, too, felt that Bush was unfairly made the president. Gallup polling from after that election found that “just 15% said he won fair and square.”
And, as noted above, some Democrats have similarly refused to admit defeat. While both Republicans and Democrats have a handful of gubernatorial candidates who refused to concede – Stacey Abrams in 2018 for the Democrats and Kari Lake for the Republicans in 2022 – for the most part, the parties have been proceeding as normal after defeat.
But Democrats and their allies were quick to predict that the 2022 election would produce a repeat of Trump’s refusal to concede in 2020. The Post surveyed a range of Republican candidates in battleground states about whether they’d respect the results of their election. When most of those candidates failed to respond to the paper’s questions, the Post ran the alarming headline: “Republicans in key battleground races refuse to say they will accept results.”
Yet after the election came and went, every candidate except for Lake had accepted the results of their election. It turned out that it was less that the Republican Party had stopped accepting elections and more that they didn’t want to talk to the Post.
As NBC News wrote in an article shortly after the midterm election: “From Maine to Michigan, Senate to state legislature, Republican to Democrat, most high-profile candidates who fell short in the 2022 midterm elections are offering quick concessions and gracious congratulations to their opponents.”
That was a far cry from what was predicted by California Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell, who warned in a Tweet in January 2022 that “every politician says this is the most important election of our lifetime. It may be. But it could also be the last one.”
During an appearance with MSNBC’s Chris Hayes, Swalwell expanded on what he meant in the Tweet. “I’m worried that if Republicans win in the midterm elections that voting as we know it in this country will be gone…if they are able to win the House, the damage they could do to permanently make it difficult to vote and to alter the way that we participate in the democratic process may be irreversible,” he said.
But Republicans did win control of the U.S. House in the 2022 election. And yet nobody thinks there won’t be another election – campaigns across the country are preparing to spend billions on it. Yet now we’re being told that maybe the next election will be the end of democracy as we know it. Why is that?
And, as noted above, some Democrats have similarly refused to admit defeat. While both Republicans and Democrats have a handful of gubernatorial candidates who refused to concede – Stacey Abrams in 2018 for the Democrats and Kari Lake for the Republicans in 2022 – for the most part, the parties have been proceeding as normal after defeat.
But Democrats and their allies were quick to predict that the 2022 election would produce a repeat of Trump’s refusal to concede in 2020. The Post surveyed a range of Republican candidates in battleground states about whether they’d respect the results of their election. When most of those candidates failed to respond to the paper’s questions, the Post ran the alarming headline: “Republicans in key battleground races refuse to say they will accept results.”
Yet after the election came and went, every candidate except for Lake had accepted the results of their election. It turned out that it was less that the Republican Party had stopped accepting elections and more that they didn’t want to talk to the Post.
As NBC News wrote in an article shortly after the midterm election: “From Maine to Michigan, Senate to state legislature, Republican to Democrat, most high-profile candidates who fell short in the 2022 midterm elections are offering quick concessions and gracious congratulations to their opponents.”
That was a far cry from what was predicted by California Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell, who warned in a Tweet in January 2022 that “every politician says this is the most important election of our lifetime. It may be. But it could also be the last one.”
During an appearance with MSNBC’s Chris Hayes, Swalwell expanded on what he meant in the Tweet. “I’m worried that if Republicans win in the midterm elections that voting as we know it in this country will be gone…if they are able to win the House, the damage they could do to permanently make it difficult to vote and to alter the way that we participate in the democratic process may be irreversible,” he said.
But Republicans did win control of the U.S. House in the 2022 election. And yet nobody thinks there won’t be another election – campaigns across the country are preparing to spend billions on it. Yet now we’re being told that maybe the next election will be the end of democracy as we know it. Why is that?
Posted on 12/23/23 at 12:40 pm to JJJimmyJimJames
The notion that a bunch of 60 year old unarmed protesters equates to a coup is absurd on its face.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 12:46 pm to JJJimmyJimJames
im not reading all that, when it was obvious the day it happened,
that it was nothing but kabuki theater pretending it was the end of democracy as we know it.
that it was nothing but kabuki theater pretending it was the end of democracy as we know it.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 12:57 pm to keakar
quote:agreed
im not reading all that, when it was obvious the day it happened,
and well, yeah reading is WAY overrated
Sort of a path that leads away from Dollar Stores though...
This post was edited on 12/23/23 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 12/23/23 at 12:58 pm to JJJimmyJimJames
quote:
the most dangerous people are often those who consider themselves incapable of evil
I read it all, but I didn't need to read past this nugget at the very beginning to understand how accurate everything that followed would be.
The guy who says, "hey, you can trust me!", cannot be trusted. The woman who feels the need to constantly tell you she'd never cheat on you, is cheating on you. The salesman who offers you "the biggest discount ever" is robbing you blind. The person who claims to be a genius is a dolt. The person who brags about how much they care about other people, is a narcissist.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 1:02 pm to JJJimmyJimJames
Insurrection led by people carrying American flags, that were waved on in by police. Dangerously walking between velvet ropes.
This post was edited on 12/23/23 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 12/23/23 at 1:10 pm to JJJimmyJimJames
You have to be a complete idiot to believe that a crowd of unarmed people with no weapons, no plans to overthrow the country and zero capability to overthrow the country were conducting an insurrection.
It's a total effing joke and always has been.
It's a total effing joke and always has been.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 1:12 pm to JJJimmyJimJames
The election was very sketchy. Weird how no investigation was allowed to take place. Gore got a month to decide if hanging chads changed the results of the Gore/Bush matchup. The abject idiocy of the left, how could Trump have led and insurrection against himself? To add no Trump supporter wanted to disrupt what was happening in congress that day, the invocation of the Electoral Act of 1887 which would have led to an investigation of various states election practices. The motive lies with the left and specifically Nancy Pelosi. The last thing they wanted was an investigation.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 1:42 pm to JJJimmyJimJames
There are 4 primary causes of evil:
- Means to an end
- Idealism
- Narcissism
- Sadism
All of these are found in the Democratic Party.
With these, there must be sufficient power at hand to carry out the evil. The Democrats have accumulated that power at local, state, and federal levels, in every branch of government.
There is no longer any reason to suspect a lack of corruption and evil with Democrats. They are together, lock step. Republicans offer us very few exceptions, but as a party they are willing participants with Democrats.
I'm honestly surprised to see anyone endorse the idea of Jan 6 being an inside job etc, and not call the 2020 election into question. Any group willing to put Jan6 into motion, is not only willing but capable of stealing an election.
- Means to an end
- Idealism
- Narcissism
- Sadism
All of these are found in the Democratic Party.
With these, there must be sufficient power at hand to carry out the evil. The Democrats have accumulated that power at local, state, and federal levels, in every branch of government.
There is no longer any reason to suspect a lack of corruption and evil with Democrats. They are together, lock step. Republicans offer us very few exceptions, but as a party they are willing participants with Democrats.
I'm honestly surprised to see anyone endorse the idea of Jan 6 being an inside job etc, and not call the 2020 election into question. Any group willing to put Jan6 into motion, is not only willing but capable of stealing an election.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 1:58 pm to antibarner
quote:
81 Million votes
Yes. Just because you don't want it to be true does not mean it is not true.
But congrats on believing a lie told to you by a con-man. Better go send him some money for his legal bills.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 1:59 pm to POTUS2024
quote:
There are 4 primary causes of evil:
- Means to an end
- Idealism
- Narcissism
- Sadism
All of these are found in the Democratic Party.
...the idea of Jan 6 being an inside job etc, and not call the 2020 election into question. Any group willing to put Jan6 into motion, is not only willing but capable of stealing an election.
All true, but take it back further once the perpetrator is hinted/revealed/whatever:
Some force has created all of this and have been working for it for decades.
You have to ask the question, "WHY"... Is this a historic follow up to world scale revolutions (and planetary flim flam financial scams) from 100, 100+ years ago?
You have to know the answer too..
Is it an attempted genocide? or the biggest crime in world history, OR BOTH?
Answer the questions, but ACT with strength. Pray to Holy Father G-d our creator and the creator of the universe. There are evil forces slithering.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 2:04 pm to Pimp Daddy Freeze
quote:
Pimp Daddy Freeze
Shut up you little pussy
Posted on 12/23/23 at 2:07 pm to Westbank111
[quote]Please NAME ONE FINANCIAL POLICY that is good for the country that your Overlords have done?[/quote
Fixing Trump mess of an economy is not an easy task. Just like his businesses he ran our economy into the ground.
The infrastructure bill is a good start. Remember when you supported the infrastructure bill in 2016 when your make-up clad candidate told you that America's infrastructure bad terrible? But now it was bad?
What we needed to do was raise taxes also with interest rates in order to curb inflation. But 40 years of brainwashing of Republicans has ruined that tactic for economic control because they are stupid and can't understand macro policy.
Fixing Trump mess of an economy is not an easy task. Just like his businesses he ran our economy into the ground.
The infrastructure bill is a good start. Remember when you supported the infrastructure bill in 2016 when your make-up clad candidate told you that America's infrastructure bad terrible? But now it was bad?
What we needed to do was raise taxes also with interest rates in order to curb inflation. But 40 years of brainwashing of Republicans has ruined that tactic for economic control because they are stupid and can't understand macro policy.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 2:11 pm to Pimp Daddy Freeze
quote:
But 40 years of brainwashing of Republicans has ruined that tactic for economic control because they are stupid and can't understand macro policy
Holy frick
Posted on 12/23/23 at 2:21 pm to Pimp Daddy Freeze
That is most likely the TD retard post of the day. Yep you are a stain on the gene pool and removal would be a plus.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 2:34 pm to TigerAxeOK
quote:like "I'll just be honest with you..."
the most dangerous people are often those who consider themselves incapable of evil
I read it all, but I didn't need to read past this nugget at the very beginning to understand how accurate everything that followed would be.
The guy who says, "hey, you can trust me!", cannot be trusted. The woman who feels the need to constantly tell you she'd never cheat on you, is cheating on you. The salesman who offers you "the biggest discount ever" is robbing you blind. The person who claims to be a genius is a dolt. The person who brags about how much they care about other people, is a narcissist.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 2:35 pm to Pimp Daddy Freeze
quote:
But congrats on believing a lie told to you by a con-man. Better go send him some money for his legal bills.
I always find this funny since Joe Biden and the democrats spent over $1billon.
How does it feel to vote for a fascist? But I guess it’s cool because the 50+ year politician only lies about playing lacrosse, being a professor and a bus driver and that his crack head son is the smartest man he knows.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 3:06 pm to antibarner
quote:
Nine post alter coward wanting to see people killed.
Don't feed the trolls. She/him/it is obviously trying to drum up some extreme reactions to be reported.
Posted on 12/23/23 at 3:50 pm to dgnx6
quote:
How does it feel to vote for a fascist?
You think Biden is a fascist? Projecting a bit too much.
It's so damn funny the "Lock her up" crowd is mad that their con-man is being brought to justice.
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