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Started By
Message
To Operate or not to Operate (on my dog)
Posted on 8/20/23 at 3:31 pm
Posted on 8/20/23 at 3:31 pm
Hey folks, just looking to get your thoughts. Let me say that our dogs have always been like family members to us (as I am sure is the case with most of you as well). I am really stressing out here and am curious to get a sense of what other dog owners have done. (in the same situation).
We discovered a few small lumps on my otherwise healthy 12 year old Cairn Terrier, Oreo. Her doctor (we have been going to this clinic since 2019) suggested surgery to remove the lumps (including a regional mastectomy). She said that a fine needle aspiration is often unreliable in determining the state of the lumps. Further, she said that she would rather just go in and remove the lumps rather than a biopsy. She also wants to do a dental cleaning while Oreo is under (it has been two years since her last dental). She says the surgery is necessary to prevent growth/spreading. Surgery is scheduled for Friday and she insists that while she can't make any guarantees, Oreo will do just fine.
As I see Oreo now, she is in great spirits and great energy. She eats well, drinks well, lives well. My fear is that the surgery will go sour and she will become a different dog, meaning the surgery will create problems for her that don't exist now. I suppose my fear partly due to my other dog having a mass removed in June of last year; it was determined to be malignant melanoma. By January of this year, he had tumors all over his body and quickly faded away. I fear that something like that will happen again. I suspect that my fear is the product of irrational paranoia, so I am hoping to get some peace of mind. I should also note that I am taking my dog to another clinic in town to get a second opinion.
Thoughts?
We discovered a few small lumps on my otherwise healthy 12 year old Cairn Terrier, Oreo. Her doctor (we have been going to this clinic since 2019) suggested surgery to remove the lumps (including a regional mastectomy). She said that a fine needle aspiration is often unreliable in determining the state of the lumps. Further, she said that she would rather just go in and remove the lumps rather than a biopsy. She also wants to do a dental cleaning while Oreo is under (it has been two years since her last dental). She says the surgery is necessary to prevent growth/spreading. Surgery is scheduled for Friday and she insists that while she can't make any guarantees, Oreo will do just fine.
As I see Oreo now, she is in great spirits and great energy. She eats well, drinks well, lives well. My fear is that the surgery will go sour and she will become a different dog, meaning the surgery will create problems for her that don't exist now. I suppose my fear partly due to my other dog having a mass removed in June of last year; it was determined to be malignant melanoma. By January of this year, he had tumors all over his body and quickly faded away. I fear that something like that will happen again. I suspect that my fear is the product of irrational paranoia, so I am hoping to get some peace of mind. I should also note that I am taking my dog to another clinic in town to get a second opinion.
Thoughts?
17
Posted on 8/20/23 at 3:34 pm to seanerin
There are no guarantees with surgeries with humans
As long as she is otherwise healthy I would proceed knowing that at her age there could be complications & the biopsy may come back as cancer
ETA
Agree with getting 2nd opinion
As long as she is otherwise healthy I would proceed knowing that at her age there could be complications & the biopsy may come back as cancer
ETA
Agree with getting 2nd opinion
This post was edited on 8/20/23 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 8/20/23 at 3:35 pm to seanerin
Your thoughts sound completely rational, and getting the second opinion is a good idea.
Just explain to both of them your concerns and reservations. Ask specifically if close monitoring is a viable option without a huge risk. They should shoot you straight. Good luck on what you decide, and I hope the pup does well whichever way you go.
Just explain to both of them your concerns and reservations. Ask specifically if close monitoring is a viable option without a huge risk. They should shoot you straight. Good luck on what you decide, and I hope the pup does well whichever way you go.
This post was edited on 8/20/23 at 3:36 pm
Posted on 8/20/23 at 3:36 pm to seanerin
I always have growths removed.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 3:36 pm to seanerin
quote:
Further, she said that she would rather just go in and remove the lumps rather than a biopsy.
quote:
I should also note that I am taking my dog to another clinic in town to get a second opinion. Thoughts?
You’re doing the correct thing
Posted on 8/20/23 at 3:36 pm to seanerin
I would not do it at 12. How much time would you actually be buying?
Posted on 8/20/23 at 3:39 pm to seanerin
12 makes it a tough choice. Could add years, but I have also been through it and wondered if the whole process was worth the outcome when it doesn’t drastically alter the course for an older pooch and just causes discomfort in what would’ve been good days.
Not the best answer, I know, but all you can do is gather up some risk/reward information and trust your gut. You’ll do your best by them, and there really isn’t a wrong answer so once you commit, don’t second guess it if the outcome isn’t what you hoped
Not the best answer, I know, but all you can do is gather up some risk/reward information and trust your gut. You’ll do your best by them, and there really isn’t a wrong answer so once you commit, don’t second guess it if the outcome isn’t what you hoped
Posted on 8/20/23 at 3:39 pm to seanerin
If she's 12, she's got another, 2, maybe 4 years?
Lot of factors to make that decision. Will it help? Is it worth it?
Lot of factors to make that decision. Will it help? Is it worth it?
Posted on 8/20/23 at 3:44 pm to seanerin
I am curious why would you not operate? If the lumps will spread whether cancerous or not, it sounds like your only alternative would be to go ahead and put the dog down now. Shitty decision to have to make.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 3:55 pm to seanerin
12 is the equivalent of mid-80s in humans. I'd just enjoy the time left, without the stress of surgery. Sometimes when they start having lumps at an advanced age, it's the signal of the beginning of the end. We had a schnauzer about the same age who kept getting lumps, we had several cut off and more would come back. We eventually decided to put her down peacefully (when she got to the point she wouldn't eat).
My dad had surgery at 86, had a stroke, and never left the hospital. In hindsight, it'd been better to keep him comfortable at home and let nature run its course. He likely only had a couple more years at best. The last few weeks of him in the hospital was pure torture.
My dad had surgery at 86, had a stroke, and never left the hospital. In hindsight, it'd been better to keep him comfortable at home and let nature run its course. He likely only had a couple more years at best. The last few weeks of him in the hospital was pure torture.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 4:06 pm to seanerin
When you feel of the lumps.. are the rubbery feeling? No hard edges? You can move them around with the skin? The dog pays no attention when you move rhem?
My dog has those and they are fatty tumors on him. Not cancerous. No threat.
Get a second opinion. If the other vet does a quick analysis and says “fatty tissue”. Drop your other vet for trying to milk a few bucks out of you and distress your dog for no reason.
My dog has those and they are fatty tumors on him. Not cancerous. No threat.
Get a second opinion. If the other vet does a quick analysis and says “fatty tissue”. Drop your other vet for trying to milk a few bucks out of you and distress your dog for no reason.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 4:22 pm to CleverUserName
quote:
When you feel of the lumps.. are the rubbery feeling? No hard edges? You can move them around with the skin? The dog pays no attention when you move rhem?
My dog has those and they are fatty tumors on him. Not cancerous. No threat.
Agree with above.
Both of my older dogs had lipomas. They ranged in size from very small to few inches in size.
quote:
She says the surgery is necessary to prevent growth/spreading.
She doesn’t know that. Whether they are benign lipomas or malignant tumors, removing them won’t stop more from popping up and spreading.
Me personally? I’d avoid the surgery in a 12yo dog.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 4:26 pm to seanerin
quote:
she insists that while she can't make any guarantees, Oreo will do just fine.
Bold move by her.
Second opinion is a smart move, but if you trust this doc I’d say have the surgery. Your experience with your previous dog (if I’m reading it correctly) doesn’t seem like surgery caused anything…he just had cancer that eventually ravaged his body. But I’d this surgery could help your current dog, and the doc seems to think it will, I’d go for it.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 4:29 pm to habz007
Just a quick thank you to all who have responded. I am going nuts trying to do the right thing (again, especially after my dog Provo's passing in January). I should also note that three of the lumps are right around one of the lower mammary glands. They are squishy and move around with he skin. They also do not cause Oreo any discomfort when I touch them (which I do daily).
Thoughts on my doctor wanting to do the dental at the same time?
Again, thank you for the compassionate responses.
Thoughts on my doctor wanting to do the dental at the same time?
Again, thank you for the compassionate responses.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 4:38 pm to habz007
My old dog started getting Lipomas around about 5 years old (Hound/Mastiff Mix). I think the only one I removed was the one "attached" to his lower jaw, because I thought it might impede eating/drinking/ball hawking. The rest I just left there.
However, your dog is going to have to go under for dental work anyway. Dental health is a great way to see symptoms of other diseases, which the pooch is probably at high risk given the age. Lipomas are so close to the surface, think of it like getting a wart "clipped" at the dermatologist.
Your vet's opinion matters more than hours, obviously, but the dog needs healthy teeth to maximize it's life. Could the dog develop pneumonia in 3 months and have to be sent on to the great farm in the sky? Sure. But you could get another year or two of the dog too. We spend more money eating out every month than we do on pets; as long as the place isn't cheating you in terms of the cost of the procedures, just pretend it's like you getting a checkup and maybe a finger up the butt. It needs to happen if the dog (as it seems) is healthy given the age.
However, your dog is going to have to go under for dental work anyway. Dental health is a great way to see symptoms of other diseases, which the pooch is probably at high risk given the age. Lipomas are so close to the surface, think of it like getting a wart "clipped" at the dermatologist.
Your vet's opinion matters more than hours, obviously, but the dog needs healthy teeth to maximize it's life. Could the dog develop pneumonia in 3 months and have to be sent on to the great farm in the sky? Sure. But you could get another year or two of the dog too. We spend more money eating out every month than we do on pets; as long as the place isn't cheating you in terms of the cost of the procedures, just pretend it's like you getting a checkup and maybe a finger up the butt. It needs to happen if the dog (as it seems) is healthy given the age.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 4:42 pm to CleverUserName
quote:
Get a second opinion. If the other vet does a quick analysis and says “fatty tissue”. Drop your other vet for trying to milk a few bucks out of you and distress your dog for no reason.
i love the OT. one thread asking why there is no more old school vets left and then this thread where statements like this occur. Jeez i wonder why vets are selling to corporates for big money. Im sure they love haggling with assholes all day who constantly distrust them like they are car mechanics.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 4:43 pm to LSUJML
Hard choice to make even with pet hospitalization. Would she be able to easily recover? What if it comes back malignant?
Does she seem to be okay? I wouldn’t want to risk putting her under at her age. You said 12, right? That would make her 84?
When I get that age range myself, I won’t have surf one either.
Does she seem to be okay? I wouldn’t want to risk putting her under at her age. You said 12, right? That would make her 84?
When I get that age range myself, I won’t have surf one either.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 4:44 pm to seanerin
A second opinion is a good idea
Posted on 8/20/23 at 4:49 pm to seanerin
I have a recently turned 9 yr old Rottweiler. My last two have made it to 10 years being large dogs. He developed a lump under his jaw about a year and a half ago. The doctor drew some fluid and said it was a fatty cyst and causes him no pain or discomfort. A second one formed on his chest about a yr ago. Same feeling to it- squishy and it moves around a bit. I just noticed another starting to form above his belly near his rib cage. The vet says they are benign.
I wrestled with having them removed, but when I found out that the surgery to have the one under his chin removed involved a long cut and was pretty invasive I decided that the decision to have them removed was more to satisfy my vanity than than aid his quality of life. He doesn't seem to be affected by them, has a great steady appetite, and still plays like a puppy. I don't want to put him through that if it won't affect his quality of life. I care for him too much to satisfy my own needs over his. End of story.
But we each need to do what we are comfortable with. I understand and appreciate the problem. You care enough to question and that's all that's required.
I wrestled with having them removed, but when I found out that the surgery to have the one under his chin removed involved a long cut and was pretty invasive I decided that the decision to have them removed was more to satisfy my vanity than than aid his quality of life. He doesn't seem to be affected by them, has a great steady appetite, and still plays like a puppy. I don't want to put him through that if it won't affect his quality of life. I care for him too much to satisfy my own needs over his. End of story.
But we each need to do what we are comfortable with. I understand and appreciate the problem. You care enough to question and that's all that's required.
This post was edited on 8/20/23 at 4:54 pm
Posted on 8/20/23 at 4:51 pm to seanerin
quote:
Thoughts on my doctor wanting to do the dental at the same time?
Don’t see the issue with that. She probably thinks it’s just easier to do while she’s under and trying to kill two birds with one stone.
Are you thinking it’s shady or something like that?
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