- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Universal income discussion
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:43 am
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:43 am
Note: I added 7 and 8.
(The following comments are from an academic standpoint. I don't support Universal Income)
The problem with UI, and there are lots, is that our society is weak and won't let people fail (or die).
For UI to work, it has to:
1. Be universal. Every adult has to get the same amount. It can't vary by income, geography or age.
2. It has to replace ALL other forms of government handouts and entitlements: No more social security, welfare, foodstamps, etc.
3. It has to be completely cold and brutal: "This is what you get, period." It won't work if we aren't willing to let people starve in the ditch. Sure, there would still be a place for charity, churches, etc. But the government cannot allow people to waste their UI, and then swoop in and give them more.
4. It has to include health insurance. (The insurance should be very basic. Private "adder" insurance would still be available) I have seen some models where every adult gets a set amount, say $25,000 per year, with $5,000 of that dedicated to health insurance, with a net of $20,000.
5. There can be no laws against making additional money and any additional money earned would not affect your UI.
6. The UI can't be garnished, inherited, mortgaged, liened, promised or sold.
7. Strict citizenship requirements. Perhaps even a time-period after citizenship before you can get it. This would solve some immigration issues, because there would be no more entitlements besides UI, which immigrants (legal or illegal) would not quality for.
8. If you go to prison, your UI goes to the entity that is imprisoning you to pay for your incarceration. No one else can get your UI except you.
None of these things would be agreeable to the people pushing for UI, so it will never happen - and if it happens, it will be a massive failure. (it would probably be a massive failure, even with these rules, but at least it would have a chance)
If you read about UI, most of the people talking about it leave out the U for Universal. It's just another entitlement.
(The following comments are from an academic standpoint. I don't support Universal Income)
The problem with UI, and there are lots, is that our society is weak and won't let people fail (or die).
For UI to work, it has to:
1. Be universal. Every adult has to get the same amount. It can't vary by income, geography or age.
2. It has to replace ALL other forms of government handouts and entitlements: No more social security, welfare, foodstamps, etc.
3. It has to be completely cold and brutal: "This is what you get, period." It won't work if we aren't willing to let people starve in the ditch. Sure, there would still be a place for charity, churches, etc. But the government cannot allow people to waste their UI, and then swoop in and give them more.
4. It has to include health insurance. (The insurance should be very basic. Private "adder" insurance would still be available) I have seen some models where every adult gets a set amount, say $25,000 per year, with $5,000 of that dedicated to health insurance, with a net of $20,000.
5. There can be no laws against making additional money and any additional money earned would not affect your UI.
6. The UI can't be garnished, inherited, mortgaged, liened, promised or sold.
7. Strict citizenship requirements. Perhaps even a time-period after citizenship before you can get it. This would solve some immigration issues, because there would be no more entitlements besides UI, which immigrants (legal or illegal) would not quality for.
8. If you go to prison, your UI goes to the entity that is imprisoning you to pay for your incarceration. No one else can get your UI except you.
None of these things would be agreeable to the people pushing for UI, so it will never happen - and if it happens, it will be a massive failure. (it would probably be a massive failure, even with these rules, but at least it would have a chance)
If you read about UI, most of the people talking about it leave out the U for Universal. It's just another entitlement.
This post was edited on 5/30/23 at 10:02 am
41
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:45 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
If you read about UI, most of the people talking about it leave out the U for Universal. It's just another entitlement.
there's a country in Europe that does this, or at least did it up to not so long ago
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:45 am to Bjorn Cyborg
Better develop a taste for insects...
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:45 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
5. There can be no laws against making additional money and any additional money earned would not affect your UI.
This right here puts us back to exactly where we are now. Only our money is even more worthless.
Edit: The only way this would ever work would be if there was an absolute price freeze on everything - which is ludicrous.
This post was edited on 5/30/23 at 9:48 am
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:45 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:gets my vote
2. It has to replace ALL other forms of government handouts and entitlements: No more social security, welfare, foodstamps, etc.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:46 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
4. It has to include health insurance. (The insurance should be very basic. Private "adder" insurance would still be available) I have seen some models where every adult gets a set amount, say $25,000 per year, with $5,000 of that dedicated to health insurance, with a net of $20,000.
Or we could just move to a single-payer system.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:48 am to Bjorn Cyborg
So, communism?
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:50 am to Bjorn Cyborg
Agreed. I’m not in favor of this stuff either at this time. We’re simply not ready for such a drastic change.
That said, at some point in the future this WILL be necessary as automation and AI remove the need to have so much human labor. And I don’t think it could ever be just a gift of cash. It would need to come in the form of actual food/clothing/shelter. The basics of survival.
That said, at some point in the future this WILL be necessary as automation and AI remove the need to have so much human labor. And I don’t think it could ever be just a gift of cash. It would need to come in the form of actual food/clothing/shelter. The basics of survival.
This post was edited on 5/30/23 at 9:54 am
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:51 am to Bjorn Cyborg
Doesn't this basically make whatever the UBI is the new zero?
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:51 am to Bjorn Cyborg
In theory I don't object to UI or single payer
I do object to it in a country of 350m people. Zero reason for my family and misanthropes on the West Coast to be pooling resources for common programs.
I do object to it in a country of 350m people. Zero reason for my family and misanthropes on the West Coast to be pooling resources for common programs.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:54 am to Bjorn Cyborg
There are some people that, no matter how much money you give them, will spend every last cent on nothing of substance
These people will continue living in poverty while they waste the handout that we pay taxes to support
UBI will do nothing but keep the poor where they are while our economy sucks
These people will continue living in poverty while they waste the handout that we pay taxes to support
UBI will do nothing but keep the poor where they are while our economy sucks
This post was edited on 5/30/23 at 9:55 am
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:55 am to Bjorn Cyborg
I'd go from working my arse off 60 hrs a week to a door greeter at Walmart for the same money and benefits.
I don't think that'll work it would shut down all industry type businesses.
I don't think that'll work it would shut down all industry type businesses.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:57 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Universal income discussion
Sounds good as the ultimate something for nothing but people need to work.
Some of the greatest achievements in the USA were built during the WPA. Take away the work ethic and you will be a welfare state.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:57 am to Bjorn Cyborg
Universal Poverty
Posted on 5/30/23 at 9:59 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
None of these things would be agreeable to the people pushing for UI, so it will never happen - and if it happens, it will be a massive failure. (it would probably be a massive failure, even with these rules, but at least it would have a chance)
If you read about UI, most of the people talking about it leave out the U for Universal. It's just another entitlement.
I agree with all of this.
I think with AI about to take over many jobs, and I honestly believe it will take more than we think, its a discussion that will be had over the next decade. I actually do not see how my job is not automated within the next 10-15 years. I am beginning to think about what's next for me and what I can do with my skillset.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 10:01 am to Bjorn Cyborg
So how does that affect housing? Does everyone just stay in the house they’re in but receive the same amount of money as people living in homes twice the value of your own and less than twice the value of your own? Property taxes? How would that work? Utilities to run said houses? This notion of UI simply can’t work unless it’s started from scratch. This country and many others like it NEED classes.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 10:09 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
If you go to prison, your UI goes to the entity that is imprisoning you to pay for your incarceration. No one else can get your UI except you.
Lmao, because our prison systems dont make enough profit
Posted on 5/30/23 at 10:10 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
2. It has to replace ALL other forms of government handouts and entitlements: No more social security, welfare, foodstamps, etc.
This is the only way to effectively implement UBI, and many conservative economists have argued that it would actually save money and government waste.
Which is why it won't happen like this.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 10:22 am to Bjorn Cyborg
Whoever came up with this doesn’t understand the basics of supply and demand or monetary inflation.
This post was edited on 5/30/23 at 10:23 am
Posted on 5/30/23 at 10:24 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
8. If you go to prison, your UI goes to the entity that is imprisoning you to pay for your incarceration. No one else can get your UI except you.
I understand your intentions, but this needs to be reworked. There can’t be an incentive to incarcerate people. Someone else is getting your UI. Instead of speed traps in small towns, Sheriff John will throw your arse in his jail to collect your UI.
How close do we want the floor to the ceiling?
This post was edited on 5/30/23 at 10:26 am
Page 1 of 3
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News