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re: Why are the tiger stadium speakers so bad?
Posted on 10/30/22 at 4:12 am to rohanman
Posted on 10/30/22 at 4:12 am to rohanman
quote:
Is it the stadium acoustics?
Yes. Long post ahead for anyone really interested in the acoustics..
There is a really nice Danley system built into the north scoreboard. This was a great location for the speakers prior to the construction of the south upper deck. The speakers fire across the field, and due to the shape of the stadium at the time the vast majority of reflections were bounced up and out away from the crowd.
Imagine the entire stadium were made of mirrors, and you sat on top of the north score board with a laser pointer. Prior to the south upper deck, most places you pointed the laser would not reflect back on the stadium. Even in places where the initial reflection (first reflection in acoustic terms) did bounce back to the stadium, the second reflection (the next bounce) almost certainly would not.
The south upper deck drastically changed that. Since the main “escape path” in the south endzone is now blocked, an enormous amount of sound is reflected back into the stadium. The impact on second and third reflections is even worse. Using the laser pointer test again - you could point the laser at the west lower bowl and bounce it to the bottom of the south upper deck and then hit the east upper deck (as an example).
This is a huge issue that really can’t be understated from a sound quality standpoint. Football stadiums are big. In the example I just gave, that second reflection probably travels a total of ~600 feet from the speaker, around the stadium, to the east uppers. But the direct sound from the speaker only travels ~200 feet. So the reflected sound arrives 400 ms after the direct sound. That’s nearly half a second, and it turns the sound into a garbled mess. Now add all of the other reflection pathways to the same listening position. The first reflection off the south upper to the east upper probably arrives ~300 ms after the direct sound. It should be clear why reflections are such a huge issue.
Turning up the volume doesn’t really fix it because you still have a garbled mess, it’s just louder.
There are two potential solutions to something like this:
1. If you’re going to stick with a point source system, you have to move it to a new location. But unfortunately, there’s not really anywhere that works as well as the north endzone worked previously. You could maybe build it into the base of the south uppers and then add supplemental speakers for the south uppers themselves.
2. You ditch the point source setup and go with distributed speakers around the stadium. This is probably the best solution but A) it’s extremely complex and B) it’s much harder to make work in outdoor stadiums compared to domes.
It’s complex because more speakers = more time alignment issues. Not just from reflections, but also from the multiple speakers. If you hear two speakers but one is 100’ further away, it’s going to be messy. So you try to position the speakers such that there isn’t much overlap between them. Then you use some audio delay tricks to compensate where you need to. (Example: If you delay the near speaker by 100 ms, the sound will arrive at the same time as the far speaker. But only for the locations that are exactly 100’ closer to the near speaker. So it’s tricky. This is what really big outdoor concerts do when you see stacks of speakers on the sides of the crowd, way in front of the stage. But it’s way easier to pull off when all speakers are pointed the same direction.)
The best way to prevent overlap is to have the speakers pointing outwards toward the stands from positions above the field. Which is why it’s much easier in domes. In an outdoor stadium you probably have to put them behind the fans pointing down toward the field, or you put them in the corners of the stadium firing across the stands.
Reflections are less of an issue because fans are much closer to the speakers on average, and sound dissipates with the square of distance. Meaning the direct sound will be much louder than the reflected sound.
Phew. That was a lot more than I planned to type.
TL;DR - the south upper deck fricked it up, and fixing it is actually quite complicated. It can be done but it will require significant investment.
Posted on 10/30/22 at 4:33 am to Flyingtiger82
quote:
In West Upper you can’t hear shite. And the band makes no noise up there. I don’t understand why there’s no speakers in the south side of stadium and none in the uppers.
The reason might be clear from the thesis I just wrote, but it’s because a single point source for audio is theoretically preferable to multiple sources (speakers) in different locations. If you can position a point source in a location that doesn’t cause massive reflection issues, it should provide cleaner overall sound because there are no time alignment issues like you run into with multiple speakers.
If you imagine a scenario in which there are big speaker systems behind both the north and south endzones, both firing towards the middle of the field, then someone sitting at the south 20 yard line is 60 yards (180 feet) closer to the south speakers than the north speakers. This means the sound from the south speakers arrives ~180 ms sooner, causing a noticeable echo.
You can solve the problem by delaying the south endzone speakers by 180 ms, so that both sources arrive at the same time.. but it only works at that particular seating location. Meanwhile, someone at the north 20 yard line has the opposite problem, and the delay added to the south speakers just made it way worse (360 ms difference instead of 180 ms).
Sound dissipates with the square of distance, so you can try turning the volume down for both endzones which would hopefully make the delay from the opposite endzone less noticeable, but then people at the 50 yard line (who were just fine at the start because they are equidistant from the two speakers) can’t hear shite.
The logical conclusion is that you wind up installing a lot of quieter speakers that are closer to the listeners. But there are trade-offs and it’s extremely complicated as I mentioned in my previous post.
Posted on 10/30/22 at 8:26 am to JW6
quote:
Why are the tiger stadium speakers so bad?
quote:
It’s so bad. It’s embarrassing how bad it is. I never hear a word
It's the reason why I don't go to games. Well, it's that and lack of led lights, small video screens, old people in the good seats, pumped in music, weather, cell service, concessions, parking, not playing a power 5 conference every game, they wont let us play "neck" or yell "STBTDB", traffic, all of the good tail gating spaces are gone, and that is just for starters
Posted on 10/30/22 at 8:26 am to lostinbr
quote:
The logical conclusion is that you wind up installing a lot of quieter speakers that are closer to the listeners. But there are trade-offs and it’s extremely complicated as I mentioned in my previous post.
I think this must have been done in Bryant-Denny at Tuscaloosa. When I go I sit in the lower bowl. The speakers are hung beneath the upper deck and aimed toward the field. The sound there is superb--I can clearly hear everything the stadium announcer says and even what the referee is saying. At LSU I sit in the west side stadium club and can hearing next to nothing.
Posted on 10/30/22 at 8:29 am to rohanman
quote:
Is it the stadium acoustics?
They try to play way too much bass and it sounds like one of those Hoopties that pulls up beside you at red light and sounds like it is going to come apart...
Posted on 10/30/22 at 8:36 am to rohanman
quote:
Something needs to be done
Jordan Hare's system sounds amazing.
Posted on 10/30/22 at 9:03 am to TigerFanFromBama
While we’re working on the speakers can we fix what comes out of the speakers on kickoffs? TIA
Posted on 10/30/22 at 9:26 am to lostinbr
quote:
It’s complex because more speakers = more time alignment issues.
CBK to the rescue
Posted on 10/30/22 at 9:28 am to rohanman
The sound quality varies depending on seat location but overall it's bad. Worse than any other stadium I've been to. And the NEZ scoreboard is embarrassing. Went to my kids track meet at Zachary High last spring and their scoreboard is bigger than LSU. How the hell does a high school have a better scoreboard than LSU? Don't we have one of the biggest athletic budgets in the country?
Posted on 10/30/22 at 9:29 am to rohanman
Hire a competent acoustic engineer. Shen Milsom & Wilke in Dallas is one of the best stadium acoustics consultants in the world. They can make it work, but I would expect a minimum fee of $2 million to test, evaluate, computer Sim, design and create a solution, with another $3 million in sound reinforcement construction.
Posted on 10/30/22 at 9:33 am to lostinbr
After each home game, I receive an email survey about my fan experience and what can be done to improve it. Each and every time I bring up the sound system and the video board in the north end zone.
My tickets are in the lower bowl of the SEZ. we cannot understand any of the PA announcements and what the referee says. The video board in the NEZ is terrible displaying game information. Down and distance, line of scrimmage, time outs left, etc. are all displayed so small and hard to find that it’s as if it’s an afterthought.
The sound system and game info displayed on video boards at other SEC stadiums are far superior.
My tickets are in the lower bowl of the SEZ. we cannot understand any of the PA announcements and what the referee says. The video board in the NEZ is terrible displaying game information. Down and distance, line of scrimmage, time outs left, etc. are all displayed so small and hard to find that it’s as if it’s an afterthought.
The sound system and game info displayed on video boards at other SEC stadiums are far superior.
This post was edited on 10/30/22 at 11:59 am
Posted on 10/30/22 at 9:38 am to lostinbr
I actually understand what you’re saying.
Another option would be have an app that has both video and audio that you use an ear bud to listen on your phone.
There would have to be 105,000+ cell switches and/or extremely intense WiFi in the stadium but that’s where we are coming to any way.
I have been to NASCAR races at Daytona, Talladega, Texas, and Bristol. Their speakers are extremely loud in the sections. Yes there’s an echo but they are so loud it doesn’t matter.
So if we just made it EXTREMELY LOUD I don’t think it would matter. Garth Brooks didn’t have an echo and it was extremely loud.
Another option would be have an app that has both video and audio that you use an ear bud to listen on your phone.
There would have to be 105,000+ cell switches and/or extremely intense WiFi in the stadium but that’s where we are coming to any way.
I have been to NASCAR races at Daytona, Talladega, Texas, and Bristol. Their speakers are extremely loud in the sections. Yes there’s an echo but they are so loud it doesn’t matter.
So if we just made it EXTREMELY LOUD I don’t think it would matter. Garth Brooks didn’t have an echo and it was extremely loud.
Posted on 10/30/22 at 9:44 am to Flyingtiger82
Turn the volume down!
Posted on 10/30/22 at 9:46 am to rohanman
Consult with the acoustic designers of the Seattle Mariners stadium. Amazing sound quality regardless of one's location. And that system has been in place about 25 years and never disappoints.
Posted on 10/30/22 at 11:22 am to rohanman
Cheap, 3rd rate equipment, like the scoreboards.
Posted on 10/30/22 at 11:38 am to rohanman
Most likely the are wired up backwards.
Posted on 10/30/22 at 11:57 am to Flyingtiger82
quote:
I have been to NASCAR races at Daytona, Talladega, Texas, and Bristol. Their speakers are extremely loud in the sections. Yes there’s an echo but they are so loud it doesn’t matter.
I don’t know exactly how the speaker systems are designed at race tracks but I wouldn’t expect them to have major problems with reflections. At least nowhere near the level of problems you have an a big college football stadium. Plenty of room for sound to dissipate on a race track.
I’m sure the speakers have to be super loud because of the track noise. I doubt the volume is making the echo any better, though. In fact I would expect that if they turned it down it would sound better.. in the absence of loud arse cars.
quote:
Garth Brooks didn’t have an echo and it was extremely loud.
Because they have a line array system on the field firing out into the crowd. This is better than the current permanent setup in Tiger Stadium for a couple of reasons:
1. Since the speakers are in a central location firing outwards, most of the reflections go up and out of the stadium. See the red arrows below for an example.
There are some cases where the angle can lead to reflections bouncing off of the lower bowl into the upper deck above it (see yellow arrows below). But the speakers are in a position such that the reflected sound doesn’t arrive in the upper deck that long after the direct sound from the speakers (green arrow below). While it is enough to muddy up the sound a bit, it’s probably not enough to create a noticeable echo. It’s not perfect, but sound for arena shows is rarely perfect, and it’s a relatively minor issue that is limited mostly to the upper decks.
![](https://i.imgur.com/1AzY5WC.jpg)
2. The best way to minimize the impact of reflections is to place the speakers closer to the listener. Again, sound dissipates with the square of distance. So if you can get the speakers much closer to the listener than the surfaces causing reflections, you get to a point where the reflections stop being “echo” and turn into more of a pleasant natural reverb. As an added benefit you can run the speakers at lower output levels, which also improves the sound, while maintaining the same volume at the listening position.
Placing the speakers on the field reduces the average distance to the listener considerably compared to the permanent north scoreboard setup:
![](https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2022/05/01/NGWC/47b8384a-5c7d-409d-b496-75503a4c747d-GarthAerial050122.jpg)
If you notice, the stage and the main speaker arrays are way closer to the north end of the stadium - probably around the 25 yard line or so. They have additional speaker arrays closer to the south endzone to improve the sound on that end of the stadium:
![](https://i.imgur.com/OV5C5CD.jpg)
This is fairly common for huge outdoor concerts. The audio to these towers is delayed so that it is time-aligned with the audio from the main arrays near the stage. Again, a source close to the listener reduces the impact of reflections.
It gets a little hairy at listening positions that are at the boundaries between the arrays’ coverage areas as they will hear sound from multiple towers with different audio delays. This would impact people sitting in the southwest and southeast corners the most. Everything in audio is a compromise.
Because the delay towers are low (relatively speaking) and close to the south endzone, the reflections off the south upper deck are less problematic:
![](https://i.imgur.com/V8SbBLp.jpg)
You still have the issue of reflections from the main arrays near the stage but again - since all of the speakers are closer to the listeners, they don’t have to run as loud.
This is another really long winded post but the main point is this: The sound wasn’t better because it was louder. It was better because the speakers were painstakingly placed in the best possible locations. This makes sense for a concert, where audio is by far the biggest concern. For a football game, though, you can’t exactly place line arrays in the middle of the field. You also can’t place speakers where they block line of sight to the field. There are a lot more constraints.
Posted on 10/30/22 at 1:19 pm to lostinbr
Thank you for this extremely long reply. But I actually understand what you are saying.
So a bunch of speakers throughout the stadium at lower levels. Would a huge speaker on cables hovering way above the stadium so we all hear the same thing at the same time work? Just curious.
So a bunch of speakers throughout the stadium at lower levels. Would a huge speaker on cables hovering way above the stadium so we all hear the same thing at the same time work? Just curious.
Posted on 10/30/22 at 1:31 pm to rohanman
A lot of stuff in TS is bad. It’s not a great fan experience when it comes to things like speakers, concessions, restrooms and overall cleanliness.
Posted on 10/30/22 at 1:46 pm to turnpiketiger
quote:
A lot of stuff in TS is bad. It’s not a great fan experience when it comes to things like speakers, concessions, restrooms and overall cleanliness.
Unpopular opinion: the SEZ expansion was a mistake. The upper south section has limited purpose and is way too high up to justify paying for those club seats.
The old TS setup with the open air South was better.
The new exterior facade of South looks great though.
This post was edited on 10/30/22 at 1:48 pm
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