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How did the tradition of super late dinners out start in places like Spain and Italy?
Posted on 6/7/22 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 6/7/22 at 12:55 pm
As I grow older, the more I enjoy an early dinner/ big meal. Few things better then a great early meal, early buzz, and a free evening with little or no plans to just walk around a nice area. How, as in before modern technology of the last 20 or 30 years, did it become a "tradition" for places like Italy and Spain to have super late dinners? As in, in the past everything took longer and it was harder without technology to plan like today.
Almost 10 years ago there was a place in Italy that didn't even open until 7:30Pm. This seems absurd to me, if for any other reason the staffing issues?
I understand the younger crowd under 25 preferring late dinners, but why in the world would a place that has to cater to all ages do that? My issue is it effects your whole day and probably the next morning also? Going out to Tapas late on vacation, is fun. Having to wait for a place to open as a local until 8pm...seems terrible?
Almost 10 years ago there was a place in Italy that didn't even open until 7:30Pm. This seems absurd to me, if for any other reason the staffing issues?
I understand the younger crowd under 25 preferring late dinners, but why in the world would a place that has to cater to all ages do that? My issue is it effects your whole day and probably the next morning also? Going out to Tapas late on vacation, is fun. Having to wait for a place to open as a local until 8pm...seems terrible?
10
Posted on 6/7/22 at 1:00 pm to baldona
I’m going to guess that people worked till sundown, and took breaks in the middle of the day, when it was too hot to be in fields. That would push back dinner.
They also have very social cultures, so you end up talking and drinking before eating.
They also have very social cultures, so you end up talking and drinking before eating.
This post was edited on 6/7/22 at 1:01 pm
Posted on 6/7/22 at 1:04 pm to baldona
quote:
According to an article by Food & Wine, Spaniards have been living in the incorrect time zone since World War II. Judging by geographical location, Spain is in the same area as other countries such as Portugal, Morocco, and the U.K., which all run on Greenwich Mean Time (GMT).
Spain, however, runs on Central European Time (CET), putting it one hour forward, thanks to former Spanish leader General Francisco Franco, who established the change in order to be more in sync with Nazi Germany.
Even after the war ended, clocks never changed back. Spanish meals, workdays, and even television programming were pushed one hour ahead, hence the later days.
In 2016, Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy announced plans to roll clocks back to GMT in an effort to abolish siestas and set the Spanish workday to end at 6 p.m., as opposed to 8 p.m. Despite public support, Spain's decision to do so — or change time zones — seems to have been put on the back burner.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 1:05 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
I’m going to guess that people worked till sundown
Good thought, but sundown for 3/4s for the year is like 4pm though. Traditionally those people don't work long hours really either.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 1:26 pm to baldona
It's much more common in Spain. In fact, it is custom. It began because there was a siesta back in the day. A 3-4 hour period where businesses closed and people went home then came back to finish their shift. As a result, the dinner hour became very late. Lunch is also the big meal traditionally in Spain. It has nothing to do with staffing issues.
In Italy we rarely ran into this practice.
In Italy we rarely ran into this practice.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 1:29 pm to baldona
quote:
Good thought, but sundown for 3/4s for the year is like 4pm though
Not even close. In January the earliest sunset in Madrid is 5:58 PM. LINK
When we were there in May sunset was around 9:30 PM.
ETA: Sunset in Madrid tonight is at 9:43 PM.
This post was edited on 6/7/22 at 1:31 pm
Posted on 6/7/22 at 2:00 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
Not even close. In January the earliest sunset in Madrid is 5:58 PM
Touche, I knew summer was late but I expected it to be earlier in the winter.
Still, given that. Most people back in the day ate almost immediately after getting home. It wasn't normal to wait for hours, for most anyway. I understand the whole siesta thing. But I'd suspect that most people would have eaten earlier when that started, within an hour so still around 12-1.
I get the socializing aspect of it completely. I suppose as you say, it was more of an activity with light eating then it was a "meal" or dinner out?
Posted on 6/7/22 at 2:02 pm to baldona
They also have no DST so their sunsets are always an hour later than the US.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 2:19 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
They also have no DST so their sunsets are always an hour later than the US.
But "traditionally" people worked more according to day light then they did clocks anyway. I have no idea how old the "late dinners" tradition even is? People act like they've been doing it traditionally for 400 years but it could be just since light bulbs of the 1900s?
Before light bulbs you had to do a lot of your cooking and prep during daylight, so eating 4 hours after dark was not easy.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 2:20 pm to VABuckeye
It's most likely the super late sunsets during the summertime. It feels weird to sit down for dinner outside at 8 pm and it's broad daylight outside. I finished a meal in Brussels at 10:30 once and walked home with there still being some daylight in the sky.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 4:37 pm to baldona
quote:
Most people back in the day ate almost immediately after getting home.
Who are most people? When is "back in the day"?
Posted on 6/7/22 at 4:59 pm to tigercross
quote:
Who are most people? When is "back in the day"?
What do you mean? Before electricity, most people was everyone.
When you hear about Spain especially, as I said, its like everyone in Spain is used to this forever. But now that times have changed, I was just curious why they want to hold onto something that's not necessary anymore.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 5:13 pm to baldona
quote:
What do you mean? Before electricity, most people was everyone.
Are you contending that prior to electricity, most people in Spain are immediately upon getting home?
Posted on 6/7/22 at 7:01 pm to baldona
At most good restaurants in Europe, at 7:30 they are empty and at 8:30 they are packed. I like that tradition. After a day of sightseeing, I like a nice long cocktail hour (or two) before dinner.
Another tradition I like is that they do not rush you and the table is yours for the night. However, I have found that there are getting to be more and more exceptions to this. Many of the popular restaurants, especially in the big cities, have two seatings and put you on a time schedule. This was unheard of 20 years ago.
Another tradition I like is that they do not rush you and the table is yours for the night. However, I have found that there are getting to be more and more exceptions to this. Many of the popular restaurants, especially in the big cities, have two seatings and put you on a time schedule. This was unheard of 20 years ago.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 7:44 pm to geauxpurple
quote:
Another tradition I like is that they do not rush you and the table is yours for the night.
It’s still that way everywhere in Spain. We liked it. You also have to ask for the check. They’ll let you sit there and won’t bring it until you ask.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 7:48 pm to baldona
That was one thing the wife and I hated while in Italy. We're old fuddy-duddies who like to eat and turn in early (especially after a day full of sightseeing and walking), but may restaurants didn't even open until 7 or 8 and then liked to move their service at a snail's pace. Definitely something I'll be more prepared to deal with next tine I'm over there, I hope.
Posted on 6/7/22 at 8:24 pm to baldona
I would imagine it has something to do with the late sunsets across Europe most of the year.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 8:02 am to geauxpurple
quote:Sounds like a very poor business decision. Table for 6 stays for the entire night, whereas another party of 6 gets turned away due to lack of seating. I would think after the intial round of drinks, dinner, desert, another drink, diminishing returns would start for that table.
Another tradition I like is that they do not rush you and the table is yours for the night.
Posted on 6/8/22 at 8:39 am to greygoose
quote:
Sounds like a very poor business decision. Table for 6 stays for the entire night, whereas another party of 6 gets turned away due to lack of seating. I would think after the intial round of drinks, dinner, desert, another drink, diminishing returns would start for that table.
Maybe they are more focused on providing a quality experience, than they are on bleeding their patrons for as much $ as possible?
Posted on 6/8/22 at 9:12 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Maybe they are more focused on providing a quality experience, than they are on bleeding their patrons for as much $ as possible?
I see you've never had to meet a payroll. 
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