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Message
re: Both sides are wrong about Wade ...
Posted on 4/5/22 at 1:53 pm to Buda
Posted on 4/5/22 at 1:53 pm to Buda
| What is clear is that he elevated the program higher than it has been in a long time - maybe ever |
You lost me here. One SEC Championship and two tourney wins. He was no where close to ‘80 to 91 -ish.
You lost me here. One SEC Championship and two tourney wins. He was no where close to ‘80 to 91 -ish.
1
Posted on 4/5/22 at 1:57 pm to Alt26
quote:Overall, there was never really anything special with his coaching. Then there were glaring weaknesses like the trouble inbounding after a made basket in 2020-21 and stagnant offenses resulting in poor shots. And before you bring up offensive efficiency in previous years, he had some talent to make up for poor shot selection before this past season.
This is said often on here, but is never followed with any explanation as to HOW he was a "below average coach." Can anyone actually explain their position? Or is this just continuous repeating of the same tired mantra?
His rotation was always pretty short and had trouble handling things when one or two of the stars were out or in foul trouble / not playing well.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 1:59 pm to GumboPot
There is a difference between an arrest and a conviction
But when a guy gets arrested and they find the kiddie porn in his room that’s when you fire him.
We know what evidence they have and you’re an idiot if you think Wade is skating by on a couple Of these violations. Fight all he wants.
But when a guy gets arrested and they find the kiddie porn in his room that’s when you fire him.
We know what evidence they have and you’re an idiot if you think Wade is skating by on a couple Of these violations. Fight all he wants.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 2:01 pm to Buda
You just repeated everything that has been discussed on here for the last several weeks. People have chosen sides on the issue and there are legitimate positions on both sides.
I’m going to edit to add one thing. I firmly believe that Scott Woodward fired Wade due to a personal conflict between he and Wade rather than because he is some angel who wanted to do the “right thing.”
I’m going to edit to add one thing. I firmly believe that Scott Woodward fired Wade due to a personal conflict between he and Wade rather than because he is some angel who wanted to do the “right thing.”
This post was edited on 4/5/22 at 2:16 pm
Posted on 4/5/22 at 2:01 pm to Alt26
quote:
This is said often on here, but is never followed with any explanation as to HOW he was a "below average coach." Can anyone actually explain their position? Or is this just continuous repeating of the same tired mantra?
its monkey see, monkey do around here....
streetball yaw yaw yaw
Posted on 4/5/22 at 2:02 pm to GumboPot
quote:
We don't know LSU/Woodward/Tate's version
Well they fired the coach, Pretty safe to assume we know their version.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 2:05 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:
THIS IS ALL ON WADE..... He was way too reckless.
This is the coach of the National Champions
quote:
According to texts released to the public today between former Adidas consultant T.J. Gassnola and Kansas head coach Bill Self, the Kansas coaching staff acknowledged Adidas' involvement with De Sousa during his recruitment. Gassnola testified last week that he agreed to pay De Sousa's guardian Fenny Falmagne $20,000 to steer him away from Maryland, and Self got involved in the equation soon after. ESPN posted a timeline of the text messages in chronological order and the context behind them, starting with Self contacting Falmagne.
"I don't remember the words, but Fenny (Falmagne) told me he was under this umbrella from the [Maryland] booster," Gassnola testified Monday. On Aug. 9, 2017, Townsend texted Gassnola and wrote, "Coach Self just talked to Fenny let me know how it goes." A few hours later, Gassnola texted Self: "Hall of Fame. When you have 5 minutes and your [sic] alone call me." Later that night, after Self hadn't responded, Gassnola texted him again: "I talked with Fenny." "We good," Self asked via text. "Always," Gassnola replied. "That's [sic] was light work. Ball is in his court now."
A head coach asking an Adidas consultant if things were "good" with De Sousa and his guardian and Gassnola responding that it "was light work." Not shady at all, right? And then it gets better. The cellphone records during the testimony indicated Gassnola and Self then had a "five-minute, six-second phone call later that night," though the phone was not monitored via FBI wiretaps at the time. From there, Kansas assistant coach Kurtis Townsend was in contact with Gassnola, who said things were in order for a commitment soon after.
On Aug. 26, 2017, Townsend forwarded Gassnola a text message that he said he'd received from Falmagne: "Coach has been on the phone with Angola (De Sousa's native country). We are good to go. We will commit tomorrow." De Sousa, who attended IMG Academy, committed to Kansas four days later.
Texts revealed that Self and Gassnola talked about Kansas wanting to stay on the same level playing field as North Carolina, Duke, and... Kentucky.
On Aug. 19, 2017, three days before Kansas announced that it had agreed to a 12-year, $191 million contract extension with Adidas, Gassnola texted Self and thanked him for helping the sponsorship deal get done. Self responded: "I'm happy with Adidas. Just got to get a couple real guys." Gassnola replied: "In my mind, it's KU, bill self. Everyone else fall into line. Too (expletive) bad. That's what's right for Adidas basketball. And I know I am RIGHT. The more you win, have lottery pics [sic] and you happy. That's how it should work in my mind." Self responded: "That's how ur works. At UNC and Duke." Gassnola replied at Kentucky as well. "I promise you I got this," Gassnola wrote. "I have never let you down. Except Dyondre lol. We will get it right."
The "Dyondre" mentioned above was later confirmed as being Deandre Ayton, the former Arizona big man
This is the head coach of Kansas talking directly to a recruiting "runner", "middle-man", "handler", "consultant" however you want to describe him. The ONLY difference between that and Wade is Wade had the misfortune of having one of his conversations, completely unbeknownst to him, recorded by the FBI. Of course, how could Wade not have known the FBI may be recording the conversation? They'd only NEVER investigated college basketball recruiting in the history of its existence.
The conversation discussed above between Self and a "consultant" was probably one of hundreds of such telephone conversations Bill Self had in just that year with a recruiting "consultant". That's how business is done. Self tells you as much when he says "that's how it works at UNC and Duke". Likewise, the conversation Wade had with Dawkins that was recorded was probably one of hundreds of such conversations he had with runners...99.9999% never recorded.
I'm not saying Wade should or should not have been fired. But the simple truth is he was doing N-O-T-H-I-N-G other power conf. programs do. He was just talking to the wrong guy (the ONLY one of thousands of "runners" nationwide that happened to be working with the FBI in an unprecedented investigation) at the exact wrong time in histroy.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 2:16 pm to Alt26
quote:
I'm not saying Wade should or should not have been fired. But the simple truth is he was doing N-O-T-H-I-N-G other power conf. programs do. He was just talking to the wrong guy (the ONLY one of thousands of "runners" nationwide that happened to be working with the FBI in an unprecedented investigation) at the exact wrong time in histroy.
Thats the kicker, if ANY of the top P5 coaches had their phones bugged, the same type of conversations wouldve been heard. Hell, self was texting dollar amounts and texts are WAY easier to trace than what was said during a phone conversation.
Its not that wade was sloppy, he was just really really unlucky being on the fbi tape.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 2:18 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:
THIS IS ALL ON WADE..... He was way too reckless.
I agree but I still would have fought it.
quote:
“Smart thing” because he “went to him with a f*****g strong-arse offer about a month
ago. F*****g strong. The problem was, I know why he didn’t take it now, it was f*****g
tilted toward the family a little bit. It was tilted toward taking care of the mom, taking care
of the kid. Like it was titled toward that. Now I know for a fact he didn’t explain everything
to the mom. I know now, he didn’t get enough of the piece of the pie in the deal.”
This was all about hiring Smart's high school assistant coach on the LSU basketball team staff and work for Wade. It's not illegal nor an NCAA violation to hire high school coaches even if he coaches are from the same high school of a recruit. If that is the case Alabama football needs the death penalty and Saban needs a 10 year show cause. Saban has like 30 assistants that were former high school coaches of recruits. But nothing is done because it is not illegal nor is it an NCAA violation.
quote:
he
communications between and Wade exist as text messages on Wade’s cell phone........
“I’m sorry you are having money issues. You said we were done after the last transfer I sent, so in my mind we are done.”
Yes that looks bad and Wade should have some culpability here but to what extent? This is a fiancé' of a FORMER player. None of these people are in college. Is this NCAA jurisdiction? This seems like a legal issue. The fiancé' was extorting Wade which is illegal.
You know how the NCAA got the text messages? Wade turned them over. He obviously disagreed with the premise of the extortion if he turned over the text messages.
My point this entire time is you can fight each NOA point by point with a dedicated couple of talented lawyers and likely come away clean or minimal damage.
And that fight...that fight builds loyalty. Wade would have felt like he owed something to Woodward and LSU after that fight. He and his family already loved LSU and after the fight he and his family would have grown a stronger bond with the LSU family. It also would have showed loyalty to the kids. Sure, short term there may have been some sanctions but long term the program would have restarted on the upward trajectory Will Wade had it initially going.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 2:33 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
you’re an idiot if you think Wade is skating by on a couple Of these violations.
So should Wade get show cause for making an offer to Smart's former high school coach?
Should Wade get show cause for Trendon Watford's older brother and mom visiting Wade and Bill Armstrong's table in a popular restaurant in Birmingham after a high school basketball game? Remember Bill Armstrong was friend of the Watford family since Trendon was 2.
I agree that Wade should get show cause for offering Reid $300K however there is ZERO evidence of this allegation other than the statement from an Arizona assistant coach.
Should Wade get show cause for being extorted by a former VCU player finance'?
Now I agree that Wade should get some show cause for the payments he made to a prospective recruit. I'd fight everything else and give on this point and let the chips fall.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 2:35 pm to Alt26
All of that is a fraction of what Wade was nailed for.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 2:37 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Yes that looks bad and Wade should have some culpability here but to what extent? This is a fiancé' of a FORMER player. None of these people are in college. Is this NCAA jurisdiction? This seems like a legal issue. The fiancé' was extorting Wade which is illegal.
You keep repeating this lie. I thought it was explained to you. The ex was Naz Reid's.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 2:42 pm to wheelz007
quote:
McMahon is who we need now
I disagree. You have to understand, despite whatever shortcomings Wade had as an in game coach, you absolutely have to have athletes to compete now in the SEC because we are about to get dusted by Arkansas, Bama, and Auburn when we were just right there with them. Yes, you can go on a run as a mid major in March with some experienced 3 star players, but you're not gonna qualify for the tournament in this league currently with that level of talent unfortunately. Look at Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and South Carolina as examples.
This post was edited on 4/5/22 at 2:43 pm
Posted on 4/5/22 at 2:54 pm to Buda
As has been noted before, the NCAA lacks subpoena power to compel cooperation by witnesses to give testimony, or to produce documents, mobile phones, etc. Wade, according to reports, withheld evidence from NCAA investigators for a substantial length of time. What if LSU kept Wade on as a measure of cooperation with the NCAA, since the University could compel Wade to produce the evidence needed by the NCAA, as a condition of his continued employment? If that were negotiated between the University and the NCAA, hopefully the University's cooperation will have a positive impact on the eventual sanctions.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 3:10 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
All of that is a fraction of what Wade was nailed for.
Are you genuinely this obtuse? Or just willfully disingenuous?
The point of the post is that while everyone says Wade was "reckless" Bill Self had the exact same types of conversations Will Wade had with "runners", "consultants". It was the same types of conversations guys like Sean Miller had (who was also on the wiretaps). These such conversations were ubiquitous between head coaches and "runners". Christian Dawkins was FAR from the only "runner" in the world of college basketball. Hell, there are probably a dozen such people in Baton Rouge alone. The recorded conversation between Wade and Dawkins was the genesis of the entire investigation. If that wiretap never happens there is no investigation of Wade...and no subsequent uncovering of any other allegations.
The ONLY difference is that Self's conversation with a runner was not recorded. That's it. Not that it didn't happen. Phone records introduced into evidence in a federal trial clearly show it did. It just wasn't recorded. What was discussed? Who knows? But we do know Silvio De Sousa committed to Kansas shortly after that conversation so I would imagine his name came up at some point. No coach, I don't give a shite how young, old, experienced, or inexperienced he may be, could have EVER anticipated the Federal Bureau of Investigations would be investigating something so irrelevant as college basketball recruiting.
Once again, I'm not saying there wasn't justification for LSU to fire Will Wade. There was and they did. But to act like Wade should have been so clairvoyant as to anticipate something that had literally never happened in the history of the sport or law enforcement would take place is beyond ridiculous. He was taking to the exact wrong person at the exact wrong point in history. That conversation, which was almost assuredly one of hundreds of similar conversations, set the entire chain of events in motion.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 3:12 pm to Buda
Nailed it.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 3:30 pm to Buda
Man. This is NOT the correct take.
See Kansas, etc
See Kansas, etc
Posted on 4/5/22 at 3:33 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Should Wade get show cause for being extorted by a former VCU player finance'?
No for paying for her silence.
People who are being blackmailed who did nothing wrong go to the police not the bank.
quote:
Now I agree that Wade should get some show cause for the payments he made to a prospective recruit. I'd fight everything else and give on this point and let the chips fall.
“Some show cause”
Which means “some completely unemployable”
You’re arguing as hard as anyone that he shouldn’t have been fired but you’re going to admit he will get a show cause?
This post was edited on 4/5/22 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 4/5/22 at 3:52 pm to Buda
quote:
we have some real brain children
Pot meet kettle.
Posted on 4/5/22 at 4:19 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
You’re arguing as hard as anyone that he shouldn’t have been fired but you’re going to admit he will get a show cause?
Show cause can be a ban from the NCAA and a suspension internally to LSU, right? 6 months to 18 months would be okay for a suspension from the program, IMO. Longer than 18 months you have to move on.
In short I'm just arguing to fight, take the punishment and move on.
This post was edited on 4/5/22 at 4:20 pm
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