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re: Rape Kits Being Used to Identify Women As Suspects In Criminal Cases
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:10 am to BluegrassBelle
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:10 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
also find it interesting that they’re using the DNA database to identify someone from a property crime.
That's something I also find interesting. Are these crimes property crimes, or are they something more serious where DNA would be taken. Is DNA typically taken for property crime? Maybe if it's some high value/serious property crime? I don't know the answer. That's kind of where I am on the fence with this. If this is happening to bring justice in some very bad crimes, then I'm all for it. If it's to catch someone for breaking I to a store after hours and stealing a shirt, not so much. Getting a rapist off the street is more critical than a theft, and we don't want to discourage reporting. If we get the rapist and find out this lady was involved in an armed robbery, lock her up. Are they catching enough women tied to a serious crime that it is really going to get around and discourage women from reporting rape? I see both sides and I think the line has to be drawn somewhere in the middle.
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Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:11 am to cubsfan5150
quote:
Hopefully you have no problem the next time you give blood or get lab work done if they fill an extra vile to send on over to the police department so that they can store your DNA and compare it to crime evidence.
I agree that would be problematic. But it's not an accurate analogy. If I give my fingerprints to the police, I expect it to be in their database. But I do not expect the police to have access to my medical records. But a rape kit is an investigation tool of the police.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:16 am to Korkstand
quote:
Someone earlier called it karma. Doesn't that mean it was deserved? Was that poster "nobody"?
As someone who has studied Buddhist philosophy, I wouldn't translate it that way, no. But I am aware that laypeople frequently use it that way, I couldn't say if that poster strictly meant it that way.
quote:
Because this method of law enforcement encourages bringing neither to justice, which generates more future victims.
This is just an assumption on your part based on one hangup. Maybe those who commit crimes will be less likely to do so if they realize they could potentially be forfeiting their own justice in the future. Maybe not. I don't know and I don't think you do either. But I don't think it has anything to do with deserving it as much as you can't expect to get away with being a hypocrite criminally.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:19 am to SECSolomonGrundy
I watched a dateline the other day about this college girl that was raped/murdered... the family took the tragedy and lobbied for a new law to be put in place where if you are arrested for certain crimes, the state can take your DNA immediately. This was New Mexico.
So what happens when you're found not-guilty or the charges are dropped? The state should have no right to keep your DNA at that point.
Similar situation here. If they don't have probable cause to run your DNA in the database, they shouldn't be able to and as soon as your exonerated they should have to destroy your profile.
So what happens when you're found not-guilty or the charges are dropped? The state should have no right to keep your DNA at that point.
Similar situation here. If they don't have probable cause to run your DNA in the database, they shouldn't be able to and as soon as your exonerated they should have to destroy your profile.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:20 am to spslayto
Awww how sad... maybe we can get these crooks some Arby's gift cards to make it all better.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:21 am to spslayto
Common practice for police to run warrant checks on victims of crimes as they’ve ran them on me the 2 times I filed reports. I don’t see a problem here
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:23 am to Korkstand
quote:
And why not? What percentage of rape kits are from women? Damn near all of them, right?
Based on personal experience I don't choose to think this way about rape and gender. Please don't ask me to elaborate, you can use your imagination.
quote:
And what percentage of rapes and murders are committed by women? Very few, right? Women are far, FAR more likely to commit "lesser" crimes than rape or murder.
Those stats don't really matter to me because I understand while a felony property crime might be a "lesser" crime in the justice system, when it comes to actual outcomes and impacts, the effects can be wide ranging. Stolen property could mean not having a car to get to work, losing a job, not being able to feed your kids, etc.
Setting policy based on stats like that creates inequality and injustice as the law isn't applied evenly.
This post was edited on 2/16/22 at 11:25 am
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:27 am to Jcorye1
quote:
Then if I'm falsely accused of a crime and court ordered to give DNA for that one crime, it should not be tested for other crimes.
You won't get an argument from me there.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:34 am to efrad
quote:Alright. Then how do you personally justify being accepting of the fact that a rapist will remain free to do what rapists do just because the victim had baggage?
As someone who has studied Buddhist philosophy, I wouldn't translate it that way, no. But I am aware that laypeople frequently use it that way, I couldn't say if that poster strictly meant it that way.
quote:A strong assumption shared with many in the field of law enforcement and based on common sense and logic.
This is just an assumption on your part based on one hangup.
quote:Ah right, someone is going to hold off on committing a crime because they might get raped one day.
Maybe those who commit crimes will be less likely to do so if they realize they could potentially be forfeiting their own justice in the future.
quote:We both know.
I don't know and I don't think you do either.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:34 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
I agree that would be problematic. But it's not an accurate analogy. If I give my fingerprints to the police, I expect it to be in their database. But I do not expect the police to have access to my medical records. But a rape kit is an investigation tool of the police.
The victim of the rape probably isn't even thinking about giving up their own DNA, just the DNA of the attacker. Do you think it's "fair" that they have to give up their own DNA privacy in order to help capture their perpetrator? It's a ridiculous notion. Why are police even cataloging DNA of victims? That seems like an overreach of power, IMO.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:36 am to efrad
quote:
This is just an assumption on your part based on one hangup. Maybe those who commit crimes will be less likely to do so if they realize they could potentially be forfeiting their own justice in the future. Maybe not. I don't know and I don't think you do either. But I don't think it has anything to do with deserving it as much as you can't expect to get away with being a hypocrite criminally.
Again, why don't we just capture DNA from everyone at the point of birth, so that maybe people would be less likely to commit crimes?
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:38 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Again, why don't we just capture DNA from everyone at the point of birth, so that maybe people would be less likely to commit crimes?
You think if they started collecting DNA the government would limit it to use in solving crimes? This would open Pandora's box.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:41 am to spslayto
quote:
You think if they started collecting DNA the government would limit it to use in solving crimes? This would open Pandora's box.
I'm being facetious, but where do people who are okay with victim's DNA being cataloged draw the line? If they are okay with that, why aren't they okay with everyone's DNA being cataloged? After all, it would probably decrease criminal activity.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:42 am to Korkstand
quote:
Alright. Then how do you personally justify being accepting of the fact that a rapist will remain free to do what rapists do just because the victim had baggage?
I'd justify it if you could actually prove this actually is the case and outweighs the other negative alternatives.
quote:
Ah right, someone is going to hold off on committing a crime because they might get raped one day.
I didn't say that nor is that what I meant, you're putting words in my mouth. You realize that people can be victims of crimes other than rape, right? Right? No, you're just interested in boiling others' arguments down to your own strawmen.
quote:quote:We both know.
I don't know and I don't think you do either.
No, I don't. You're just assuming bad faith on my part. You're very hard to engage with on here because every time I have in the past, you just assume everyone on this board is the same conservative you've built up in your head.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:43 am to spslayto
i dont knwo where i stand on this. on one hand, i support justice being brought to people who have committed crime. on the other, this seems like a massive slippery slope and i have no idea where it ends
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:45 am to WestCoastAg
It's like a Bad Luck Brian meme.
Gives rape kit. Goes to jail.
Gives rape kit. Goes to jail.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:47 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Again, why don't we just capture DNA from everyone at the point of birth, so that maybe people would be less likely to commit crimes?
Because as I said in my previous post, I don't think it's justifiable to do blanket tests as I don't particularly like or trust cops to do the right thing. My posts have been in reply to Korkstand's specific scenario where the woman is factually guilty and why I should still see it as a negative after the fact.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 11:54 am to efrad
quote:Great. How about let's just not do anything that discourages the reporting of ANY crimes? You are the one supporting a policy that discourages reporting, not me.
Those stats don't really matter to me because I understand while a felony property crime might be a "lesser" crime in the justice system, when it comes to actual outcomes and impacts, the effects can be wide ranging. Stolen property could mean not having a car to get to work, losing a job, not being able to feed your kids, etc.
Setting policy based on stats like that creates inequality and injustice as the law isn't applied evenly.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 12:00 pm to Korkstand
Cool. You're just on here to mock other posters, not have a conversation about the topic. I didn't do that to you, but I realize now I'm probably stupid for trying to engage in anything remotely political with you. See you on the tech board where you don't have an axe to grind with the board.
Posted on 2/16/22 at 12:05 pm to efrad
quote:You don't feel that you should justify a policy which can only result in fewer crimes reported AND which gets around that pesky 4th amendment? Wow.
I'd justify it if you could actually prove this actually is the case and outweighs the other negative alternatives.
quote:That is the implication of the words that you wrote.
I didn't say that nor is that what I meant, you're putting words in my mouth.
quote:Yes I understand. Thing is victims of other crimes aren't required to self-incriminate in the process of providing evidence.
You realize that people can be victims of crimes other than rape, right? Right?
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