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Somebody explain the fascination the NFL has with mediocre college HCs
Posted on 1/7/19 at 11:39 am
Posted on 1/7/19 at 11:39 am
I just don’t understand this. If it was Saban, or Meyer, or even Harbaugh because of his past success in he NFL I get it. But the mediocre or just starting HCs from college who are getting NFL interest boggles my mind. Especially Kingsbury. Great offensive mind and wouldn’t be a bad pick for OC but as a HC he has been extremely mediocre to below average. Sean Mcvay is an outlier because he has been in the pro game for majority of his life. So can someone please explain this to me?
13
Posted on 1/7/19 at 11:52 am to jgoodw318
They've run out of ideas
Posted on 1/7/19 at 11:56 am to jgoodw318
It’s the new fad. Young and hip offensive-minded guys.
Surprisingly the Saints were way ahead of the curve and got Sean Payton.
Surprisingly the Saints were way ahead of the curve and got Sean Payton.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 12:00 pm to jgoodw318
The biggest difference between CFB and the NFL is the method of acquiring players. Success in CFB requires the ability to successfully recruit high schoolers. Remove that aspect from the equation and you can be left with a CFB coach that is great at game planning and the management aspects of coaching but is bad at recruiting. This is why you could theortically have someone that is a mediocre CFB coach have success in the NFL.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 12:04 pm to jgoodw318
NFL offenses are trending towards college offenses and they want the guys with those ideas. Also its a different animal running a program in the NFL. The head coaches dont have to manage personnel and deal with kids and the mistakes they make.
The great college coaches have failed up there. Saban is the greatest college coach of all time but he sucked in the NFL. He actually likes the micromanagement of college rosters and has mastered it. All in all its a crapshoot hiring nfl head coaches. Great or mediocre college coach really isnt a major factor. They are gonna succeed or fail based in someone elses choices of players.
The great college coaches have failed up there. Saban is the greatest college coach of all time but he sucked in the NFL. He actually likes the micromanagement of college rosters and has mastered it. All in all its a crapshoot hiring nfl head coaches. Great or mediocre college coach really isnt a major factor. They are gonna succeed or fail based in someone elses choices of players.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 12:05 pm to jgoodw318
quote:
Somebody explain the fascination the NFL has with mediocre college HCs
Very simple, NFL has different philosophy. They believe it’s players more than coaches first. Secondly, it’s play design and prep than salesmen/recruiting. You don’t have to recruit in the nfl.
Best college coaches usually have the best talent. They don’t have to be creative because they out talent you with the best players.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 12:21 pm to LSU2a
There has not been one coach who was a career mediocre coach in college that turned out to be a success in the NFL. There have been a bunch of successful college guys go to the NFL and fail. You can acquire players all you want but there’s a difference in philosophy. Sure they’re trying to run more college schemes offensively in the NFL now, which is why making some of these guys OCs makes more sense. But HC is a different ball game.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 12:33 pm to dos crystal
Chip Kelly was pretty successful at Oregon with some pretty good talent. He was considered the most creative offensive mind in college football at the time. Yet he was a pretty big failure in the NFL. He had a good first season but after that everybody figured him out.
The best offensive minds in the NFL (Mcvay, Reid, Payton) have been in the NFL for majority, if not all, of their careers. What they have done is take college concepts and put them in their game plan. That’s what makes them successful. Those guys aren’t trying to bring the college game into the NFL. They’re taking ideas that work in college and working it to make it work in the NFL.
The best offensive minds in the NFL (Mcvay, Reid, Payton) have been in the NFL for majority, if not all, of their careers. What they have done is take college concepts and put them in their game plan. That’s what makes them successful. Those guys aren’t trying to bring the college game into the NFL. They’re taking ideas that work in college and working it to make it work in the NFL.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 12:48 pm to jgoodw318
If Kingsbury had a defense with a pulse it would be an entirely different story. His offense with a legit defense would wreck havoc in the big 12. Oklahoma's defense was just good enough to squeak out wins in that league. It's hard as hell to recruit quality defensive players to Lubbock.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 1:14 pm to jgoodw318
quote:
There has not been one coach who was a career mediocre coach in college that turned out to be a success in the NFL.
Marv Levy, Jim Caldwell, and Bruce Arians say hello.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 1:16 pm to LSU2a
quote:
The biggest difference between CFB and the NFL is the method of acquiring players. Success in CFB requires the ability to successfully recruit high schoolers. Remove that aspect from the equation and you can be left with a CFB coach that is great at game planning and the management aspects of coaching but is bad at recruiting. This is why you could theortically have someone that is a mediocre CFB coach have success in the NFL.
and in this theory, KK is literally the perfect poster boy of potential
he just needs a good DC and GM and all he has to focus on is offense and that could work (see: McVay)
Posted on 1/7/19 at 1:18 pm to AmazinGrace
quote:
Oklahoma's defense was just good enough to squeak out wins in that league. It's hard as hell to recruit quality defensive players to Lubbock.
yeah exactly. people were pimping Riley earlier and what separates him from KK as a coach?
i mean frick OU has all the recruiting advantages to own the Big12 (as it has the past 20 years) but still fields a terrible D. how in the hell is TTech ever going to field a good D?
Posted on 1/7/19 at 1:19 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:
Marv Levy, Jim Caldwell, and Bruce Arians say hello.
None of these guys were plucked straight from college mediocrity to a NFL head coaching job.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 1:29 pm to Bench McElroy
quote:
Mark Levy
He didn’t jump straight from college to NFL as a HC. And let’s try to stick with guys from this century.
quote:
Jim Caldwell
Lol come on, man. Really??
Another guy that didn’t start out in the NFL as a HC. And I wouldn’t really call him a successful HC in the NFL.
quote:
Bruce Arians
The one guy in your list that was actually successful as a HC in the NFL on your list. But, once again, he did not come straight into the NFL as a HC. He cut his teeth for 20+ years before he became a HC.
So your entire list is invalid.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 1:40 pm to lsufanva
quote:
The head coaches dont have to manage personnel and deal with kids and the mistakes they make.
NFL coaches absolutely have to do that and it's probably more difficult because the players are paid and have more power. Just look at this year's Steelers.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 1:59 pm to jgoodw318
quote:
There has not been one coach who was a career mediocre coach in college that turned out to be a success in the NFL.
Tom coughlin, Jim harbaugh, Bill Walsh, Dennis green
Posted on 1/7/19 at 2:27 pm to dos crystal
quote:
Bill Walsh
This is the biggest name. He had a decent stint at Stanford. Then went directly to the Niners, brought his college offense with him, and revolutionized the NFL.
Bill Parcells only head coaching experience was a single losing season at Air Force.
Both did have a lot of NFL assistant coaching experience prior to becoming a HC.
Don Coryell was a very successful college coach, but at lower levels. I think his biggest job prior to the NFL was at San Diego St. He brought his Air Coryell from college and had successful runs in St. Louis and San Diego.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 2:44 pm to jgoodw318
The offenses in the NFL seem to be moving toward what college teams run. It’s a lot easier to hire a great Offensive mind from a college team then a great offensive mind who is also a great head coach . The NFL is different where these guys don’t have to recruit causing some of them like Chip Kelly to want to go to the NFL .
Posted on 1/7/19 at 3:09 pm to dos crystal
quote:
Tom Coughlin
Spent 10 years in NFL as an assistant before even becoming a college coach. Was successful as a coach right out of college, however he had plenty of experience in the NFL game before hand.
quote:
Bill Walsh
Also spent 10 years in the NFL as an assistant before becoming a college HC. Let’s try to keep it with guys who have coached in today’s game tho.
quote:
Dennis Green
6 years as an assistant in the NFL prior to college HC.
One thing to note about all of the guys you stated is none of them were even close to mediocre as HCs in college. They were all very successful in the college game. Also, all except Harbaugh had prior experience in the NFL. And I stated Harbaugh being a guy to look at other than Saban and Meyer in my OP.
Posted on 1/7/19 at 3:10 pm to tjv305
They may not have to recruit but they definitely have to make sure they have the right players to fit their systems. So really that’s a moot point.
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