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Message

Sam Pittman in 2019 is not Ed Orgeron in 2016 (more like O in 2005)
Posted on 12/9/19 at 7:12 am
Posted on 12/9/19 at 7:12 am
this is the hope that the hogs keep trying to push, and with LSU's success i can see the "LSU model" becoming a thing people try for a few years (think like the McVay and friends phenomenon in the NFL going on right now). the problem is that (1) these things rarely become trends and (2) Arkansas is nowhere close to what LSU was in 2016
first, Orgeron stepped into a well oiled machine that was built by Les Miles. the cupboard was stocked with talent both in terms of roster and coaches. Aranda was the DC and has run that himself since. Ensminger was basically the assistant HC and has effectively run the offense for the majority of the time under O. and we had top 3-4 talent across the roster. Arkansas has NONE of this. you barely have any coaches of worth and your talent is mediocre (and worse than that compared to the LSU West). sure in time you can improve both, but how long does a rookie HC get to figure these things out? are you willing to wait up to 4-5 years to get a winning record in conference play?
second, O already was in the position Pittman was in. just in 2005 at Ole Miss. positional coach/ace recruiter takes over a failing program in the doldrums. he did recruit well but was in over his head as a coach. it's possible Pittman is some HC savant, but if that were true why is he getting his first job at 58? he's the same age as O but in 2005 O was a (failing) HC in the SECW while Pittman was an assistant at Western Michigan. if Pittman has the same pattern as O, he'll be HC ready when he's 70.
lastly, the "Orgeron blueprint" was almost over last year. if OSU chooses Burrow or if Burrow doesn't choose LSU, then it's very likely O is fired last year. we would have been utterly terrible on offense and likely a 5 or 6 win team (hence why those were our projections last year pre-Burrow). so even the model you're trying to copy is not the best decision making, because that model was on the brink of collapse and required 2 miracles (Burrow, Brady) to be saved. you think Arkansas and its inferior talent and coaching will be able to seal the deal on a Burrow-level talent? over OU? LSU? etc. c'mon
first, Orgeron stepped into a well oiled machine that was built by Les Miles. the cupboard was stocked with talent both in terms of roster and coaches. Aranda was the DC and has run that himself since. Ensminger was basically the assistant HC and has effectively run the offense for the majority of the time under O. and we had top 3-4 talent across the roster. Arkansas has NONE of this. you barely have any coaches of worth and your talent is mediocre (and worse than that compared to the LSU West). sure in time you can improve both, but how long does a rookie HC get to figure these things out? are you willing to wait up to 4-5 years to get a winning record in conference play?
second, O already was in the position Pittman was in. just in 2005 at Ole Miss. positional coach/ace recruiter takes over a failing program in the doldrums. he did recruit well but was in over his head as a coach. it's possible Pittman is some HC savant, but if that were true why is he getting his first job at 58? he's the same age as O but in 2005 O was a (failing) HC in the SECW while Pittman was an assistant at Western Michigan. if Pittman has the same pattern as O, he'll be HC ready when he's 70.
lastly, the "Orgeron blueprint" was almost over last year. if OSU chooses Burrow or if Burrow doesn't choose LSU, then it's very likely O is fired last year. we would have been utterly terrible on offense and likely a 5 or 6 win team (hence why those were our projections last year pre-Burrow). so even the model you're trying to copy is not the best decision making, because that model was on the brink of collapse and required 2 miracles (Burrow, Brady) to be saved. you think Arkansas and its inferior talent and coaching will be able to seal the deal on a Burrow-level talent? over OU? LSU? etc. c'mon
Posted on 12/9/19 at 7:18 am to SlowFlowPro
We just went through 3 years of an unqualified O-line coach with an “elite” recruiting background.. good luck hogs
Posted on 12/9/19 at 7:22 am to SlowFlowPro
If they disagree with any of that, they are more delusional than I thought
Posted on 12/9/19 at 7:24 am to SlowFlowPro
Gotta think he will at least do better than chad Morris. That’s the standard right now.
Posted on 12/9/19 at 7:25 am to 1999
quote:
Gotta think he will at least do better than chad Morris. That’s the standard right now.
It will hard to be as bad as Morris
Posted on 12/9/19 at 7:32 am to SlowFlowPro
If he can steady the program and get us to 6ish wins a year come year 3 or 4, I think the majority of hog fans will he pleased and we will see him retire to his retirement home he already has in NWA.
Majority of hog fans aren’t expecting miracles just stabilization of the program.
Majority of hog fans aren’t expecting miracles just stabilization of the program.
Posted on 12/9/19 at 7:33 am to Muleriderhog
you could have him stock the team with talent over 3 years then bow out for Houston Nutt, just like Ole Miss did
Posted on 12/9/19 at 7:35 am to SlowFlowPro
I hope it works out for the hogs but it has a logic to it that sounds an awful lot like “recruiting 3 star players is a good idea because Mathieu was a 3 star recruit”.
Posted on 12/9/19 at 7:36 am to SlowFlowPro
I think it’s a similar hire when you consider the difference in caliber of program. If they would’ve hired Kiffin, it would be like a good program getting saban. I just don’t believe anyone wanted the job except this guy.
Posted on 12/9/19 at 7:56 am to Bear Is Dead
quote:
I just don’t believe anyone wanted the job except this guy.
I wonder how much them letting Morris go after only two years factored into that.
Posted on 12/9/19 at 7:57 am to SlowFlowPro
Cool.
Better not lose to Pittman then.
Better not lose to Pittman then.
Posted on 12/9/19 at 8:04 am to Grateful Reb
quote:
I wonder how much them letting Morris go after only two years factored into that.
I’m going to guess the losing 35-3 at halftime to Western Kentucky is the bigger issue here. Morris ran this program 6 feet under and no one with an upwardly mobile career is going to want to take a risk with that level of rebuild in the toughest division in CFB.
Posted on 12/9/19 at 8:05 am to SlowFlowPro
Lol lots of words just to say you scared
Posted on 12/9/19 at 8:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
you could have him stock the team with talent over 3 years then bow out for Houston Nutt, just like Ole Miss did
I never understood the Nutt hire after Orgeron. O actually brought in some talent. Nutt had just been fired from arKansas and couldn’t coach or recruit. Should have gone after Gus at that point.
Posted on 12/9/19 at 8:45 am to Grateful Reb
quote:
I wonder how much them letting Morris go after only two years factored into that.
Morris was one of the worst SEC coaches of all time. nobody is mad at Arky for firing him
Posted on 12/9/19 at 8:46 am to hawgfaninc
quote:
Lol lots of words just to say you scared
i only made this thread b/c of all the insane Arky fans going batshit at Ole Miss fans when it became apparent Kiffin was going to Ole Miss and Arky fans refused to believe it. it was crazy on a new level
Posted on 12/9/19 at 9:14 am to SlowFlowPro
After the Morris free fall, we don't expect an NC anytime soon or even to compete for one. We need healing and stabilization.
Can he do it? Who knows. But we were 4-20 total and 0-16 in conference for 2 yrs in a row. Can he get 3 wins next year? Can he show steady improvement?
He can look at Coach Os plan and try his best. He has a blueprint.
Can he do it? Who knows. But we were 4-20 total and 0-16 in conference for 2 yrs in a row. Can he get 3 wins next year? Can he show steady improvement?
He can look at Coach Os plan and try his best. He has a blueprint.
Posted on 12/9/19 at 9:14 am to SlowFlowPro
Time will tell how good of a hire this is.
The current Arkansas program is very ill. There is no doubt that Pittman will rebuild things from the trenches outward. To start this rebuild, that is where it needs to begin. From there, it is really going to come down to who his assistants are and how much Sam tries to meddle in each side of the ball. IF he approaches it like your Coach O and seems to stay out of most game decisions, then he will fair okay.
While the talent is lacking, especially in the trenches currently, it is still good enough talent to manage a 3 cream puff 1 solid OOC schedule. I do not think any Arkansas fan is expecting to be challenging for the SEC West over the next 2-3 years. What is expected is to go 3-1 in the OOC schedule and have a shot against Ole Miss, Miss State, Tennesse, Kentucky's, etc. to get to a bowl game.
I view this hire as a Danny Ford set up...Ford could recruit well. His ceiling here was an 8 win season. Nutt came in 4 years later and put the coaching pieces together with the talent Ford had in place. Sam likely is here for 4 years, gathers talent and flips the roster over time and at least gets the program believing again.
The current Arkansas program is very ill. There is no doubt that Pittman will rebuild things from the trenches outward. To start this rebuild, that is where it needs to begin. From there, it is really going to come down to who his assistants are and how much Sam tries to meddle in each side of the ball. IF he approaches it like your Coach O and seems to stay out of most game decisions, then he will fair okay.
While the talent is lacking, especially in the trenches currently, it is still good enough talent to manage a 3 cream puff 1 solid OOC schedule. I do not think any Arkansas fan is expecting to be challenging for the SEC West over the next 2-3 years. What is expected is to go 3-1 in the OOC schedule and have a shot against Ole Miss, Miss State, Tennesse, Kentucky's, etc. to get to a bowl game.
I view this hire as a Danny Ford set up...Ford could recruit well. His ceiling here was an 8 win season. Nutt came in 4 years later and put the coaching pieces together with the talent Ford had in place. Sam likely is here for 4 years, gathers talent and flips the roster over time and at least gets the program believing again.
Posted on 12/9/19 at 9:15 am to SlowFlowPro
Ed O is going to be a good excuse for a lot of programs to make bad or cheap hires over the next 5-10 years
Posted on 12/9/19 at 9:19 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
Ed O is going to be a good excuse for a lot of programs to make bad or cheap hires over the next 5-10 years
Yeah, but our total staff payroll is the opposite of cheap. So if schools go cheap head coach, they better spend some serious money on coordinators and assistants (and shadow staff).
That is why Orgeron's model works. He is building a very expensive army.
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