- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
An objective look at Raymond’s tenure by the numbers
Posted on 12/9/21 at 8:56 am
Posted on 12/9/21 at 8:56 am
I was on the recruiting board looking at a thread that mentioned DB’s pre-Raymond’s time at LSU and I got to digging and I think the numbers are worth sharing. Here’s a list of the 4 and 5 star corners and safeties who enrolled at LSU under Raymond’s recruitment:
Dwayne Thomas
Corey Thompson
Tre White
Jeryl Brazil
Rashard Robinson
Jamal Adams - 5*
Ed Paris
Devin Voorhies
Kevin Toliver II - 5*
Donte Jackson
Xavier Lewis
Kristian Fulton - 5*
Saivion Smith
Eric Monroe
Greedy Williams
Jacoby Stevens - 5*
Grant Delpit
Todd Harris
Kelvin Joseph
Derek Stingley - 5*
Marcel Brooks - 5*
Maurice Hampton
Eli Ricks - 5*
Jordan Toles
So out of 24 safeties and cornerbacks who were 4* and 5* recruited by Raymond, the breakdown of their careers is:
Highly successful - 21%
2 - First round draft picks
3 - 2nd or 3rd round draft picks
Moderately successful - 13%
3 - 4th to 7th round draft picks
For a total of 8 guys drafted out of that group. 5 first or second day selections, only 3 guys drafted otherwise. 7 five star talents out of that group, and only 1 first round selection who, let’s be honest, would’ve been a first round pick anywhere in Jamal Adams.
Also, compare the 5 1st-3rd round draft selections from 2012-2020 to 8 just from 2007-2013. There was a dropoff there from Cooper to Raymond
Guys who didn’t pan out - 66%
6 - Transfers or kicked off team
10 - Undrafted
It’s worth noting that out of all of the 3* prospects Raymond signed, only 1 was drafted (Jalen Collins). Compare that to WR’s where you have 5+ 3*’s drafted in that time span with 1 first rounder in Justin Jefferson. Basically zero non-blue chip recruits were developed into significant players under Raymond
Looking back at each individual, I think there was a development and culture issue there for a while. More guys crashed and burned and were kicked off the team than developed into team leaders and 1st or 2nd day draft picks. Raymond is probably the best recruiter in the country but, year over year, the recruits weren’t developing. Just some food for thought, hopefully this calms the people who think Raymond is irreplaceable.
Dwayne Thomas
Corey Thompson
Tre White
Jeryl Brazil
Rashard Robinson
Jamal Adams - 5*
Ed Paris
Devin Voorhies
Kevin Toliver II - 5*
Donte Jackson
Xavier Lewis
Kristian Fulton - 5*
Saivion Smith
Eric Monroe
Greedy Williams
Jacoby Stevens - 5*
Grant Delpit
Todd Harris
Kelvin Joseph
Derek Stingley - 5*
Marcel Brooks - 5*
Maurice Hampton
Eli Ricks - 5*
Jordan Toles
So out of 24 safeties and cornerbacks who were 4* and 5* recruited by Raymond, the breakdown of their careers is:
Highly successful - 21%
2 - First round draft picks
3 - 2nd or 3rd round draft picks
Moderately successful - 13%
3 - 4th to 7th round draft picks
For a total of 8 guys drafted out of that group. 5 first or second day selections, only 3 guys drafted otherwise. 7 five star talents out of that group, and only 1 first round selection who, let’s be honest, would’ve been a first round pick anywhere in Jamal Adams.
Also, compare the 5 1st-3rd round draft selections from 2012-2020 to 8 just from 2007-2013. There was a dropoff there from Cooper to Raymond
Guys who didn’t pan out - 66%
6 - Transfers or kicked off team
10 - Undrafted
It’s worth noting that out of all of the 3* prospects Raymond signed, only 1 was drafted (Jalen Collins). Compare that to WR’s where you have 5+ 3*’s drafted in that time span with 1 first rounder in Justin Jefferson. Basically zero non-blue chip recruits were developed into significant players under Raymond
Looking back at each individual, I think there was a development and culture issue there for a while. More guys crashed and burned and were kicked off the team than developed into team leaders and 1st or 2nd day draft picks. Raymond is probably the best recruiter in the country but, year over year, the recruits weren’t developing. Just some food for thought, hopefully this calms the people who think Raymond is irreplaceable.
10
Posted on 12/9/21 at 8:59 am to Forever
Solid work putting this together.
Unless you have the numbers from other schools it’s hard to say whether these players getting to the nfl is good or not. Also, did you look to see if any 3 stars or lower made it to the nfl under Raymond?
Unless you have the numbers from other schools it’s hard to say whether these players getting to the nfl is good or not. Also, did you look to see if any 3 stars or lower made it to the nfl under Raymond?
This post was edited on 12/9/21 at 9:00 am
Posted on 12/9/21 at 9:33 am to Forever
Man some of those dudes are a whos who of frustration
Dwayne Thomas (disappointing career)
Corey Thompson (Some dark days with him back at safety)
Jeryl Brazil (dumb as rocks)
Rashard Robinson (the ultimate Rant unicorn that never fully clicked)
Ed Paris (can't believe how big of a bust he was)
Devin Voorhies (though he would be great but at least he stayed all 4 years)
Kevin Tolliver (the ultimate looks like Tarzan plays like Jane bust)
Xavier Lewis (lost in the depth chart)
Saivion Smith (frick this dude)
Eric Monroe (Passed up by everybody)
Todd Harris (yikes, we were pumped that he stayed home over going to Bama)
Kelvin Joseph (soft as charmin)
Marcel Brooks (dude would be a top player had he not transferred)
Mo Hampton (Helped turn around the 2019 defense late in the season)
Eli Ricks (Mr. Me. Soft)
Dwayne Thomas (disappointing career)
Corey Thompson (Some dark days with him back at safety)
Jeryl Brazil (dumb as rocks)
Rashard Robinson (the ultimate Rant unicorn that never fully clicked)
Ed Paris (can't believe how big of a bust he was)
Devin Voorhies (though he would be great but at least he stayed all 4 years)
Kevin Tolliver (the ultimate looks like Tarzan plays like Jane bust)
Xavier Lewis (lost in the depth chart)
Saivion Smith (frick this dude)
Eric Monroe (Passed up by everybody)
Todd Harris (yikes, we were pumped that he stayed home over going to Bama)
Kelvin Joseph (soft as charmin)
Marcel Brooks (dude would be a top player had he not transferred)
Mo Hampton (Helped turn around the 2019 defense late in the season)
Eli Ricks (Mr. Me. Soft)
Posted on 12/9/21 at 9:40 am to tigersquad89
quote:
Solid work putting this together.
Unless you have the numbers from other schools it’s hard to say whether these players getting to the nfl is good or not. Also, did you look to see if any 3 stars or lower made it to the nfl under Raymond?
Yea the only thing I noticed was that there was a huge dropoff from the Cooper era to the Raymond era in every notable category. Cooper was objectively much better
Posted on 12/9/21 at 9:41 am to Forever
Do your % include everyone on the list? Because a bunch of those guys haven’t been draft eligible.
Posted on 12/9/21 at 9:43 am to Bottom9
quote:
Man some of those dudes are a whos who of frustration
No doubt, more than using it as a comparison, I think it puts his tenure into perspective. The transition from Cooper to him was pretty seamless and we’ve always been using the DBU moniker so I feel like he gets a lot of credit for how phenomenal Cooper and his classes were, especially at safety. We had a ton of busts there under Raymond that were ignored because he was bringing in yet another 5 star the next year
Posted on 12/9/21 at 9:45 am to SammyTiger
quote:
Do your % include everyone on the list? Because a bunch of those guys haven’t been draft eligible.
Yes. OP kinda fricked up his entire post with this mistake.
He talks about how only 1 of the 8 5* guys was a first round pick, but 3 of those 8 are still playing CFB. So for draft eligible players it is 1 out of 5. Stingley is likely to go in the 1st round.
Posted on 12/9/21 at 9:49 am to SammyTiger
quote:
Do your % include everyone on the list? Because a bunch of those guys haven’t been draft eligible
Aside from Stingley it’s pretty much an estimate. I’m not giving him credit for Ricks or Robinson or other guys who transferred out and were drafted anyway lol. You can look at the names and draw a conclusion for yourself if you disagree, that’s why I included them rather than just putting my own numbers down. Nothing would change significantly unless you had some crazy estimate of guys who aren’t going to get drafted getting drafted
Posted on 12/9/21 at 9:52 am to GeauxWarTigers
quote:
Yes. OP kinda fricked up his entire post with this mistake.
He talks about how only 1 of the 8 5* guys was a first round pick, but 3 of those 8 are still playing CFB. So for draft eligible players it is 1 out of 5. Stingley is likely to go in the 1st round
It wasn’t a mistake. Out of the 3 still playing college football, 2 aren’t at LSU anymore and 1 didn’t play this season. That’s 0 for 3 on 5 stars panning out at LSU, it is what it is. If you want to defend Raymond by giving him credit for Marcel Brooks and Eli Ricks, be my guest and start your own thread
Posted on 12/9/21 at 9:55 am to Forever
Highly successful - 21%
2 - First round draft picks
3 - 2nd or 3rd round draft picks
White, Delpit, Adams, Fulton, Jackson, Williams, Stingley, Collins, Stingley,
Ricks.
Collins was a 4star as well per 247sports.
Thats 10 if you're counting Ricks & Stingley.
I'll give him credit Ricks development. They both left at the same time.
Stop digging up "feel good" reasons to help yourself cope with Raymond leaving. Seems like every other thread is someone trying to justify moving on from him.
2 - First round draft picks
3 - 2nd or 3rd round draft picks
White, Delpit, Adams, Fulton, Jackson, Williams, Stingley, Collins, Stingley,
Ricks.
Collins was a 4star as well per 247sports.
Thats 10 if you're counting Ricks & Stingley.
I'll give him credit Ricks development. They both left at the same time.
Stop digging up "feel good" reasons to help yourself cope with Raymond leaving. Seems like every other thread is someone trying to justify moving on from him.
Posted on 12/9/21 at 10:05 am to Forever
Tre White was a 5* on at least one service.
I like Raymond. Very disappointed to see him go and really surprised to see so many attempts to downplay his tenure.
He worked under 5 DCs and always restocked the pond. Dude was steady on.
If we really want to evaluate his career quantitatively, then one would want to compare him to other schools. Have others performed better?
I expect Kelly to make a great hire and DBU will live on but Raymond should only be appreciated by Tiger fans.
I like Raymond. Very disappointed to see him go and really surprised to see so many attempts to downplay his tenure.
He worked under 5 DCs and always restocked the pond. Dude was steady on.
If we really want to evaluate his career quantitatively, then one would want to compare him to other schools. Have others performed better?
I expect Kelly to make a great hire and DBU will live on but Raymond should only be appreciated by Tiger fans.
This post was edited on 12/9/21 at 10:06 am
Posted on 12/9/21 at 10:05 am to TigerFanFromBama
quote:
Stop digging up "feel good" reasons to help yourself cope with Raymond leaving. Seems like every other thread is someone trying to justify moving on from him
Lol because he wasn’t that good
quote:
I'll give him credit Ricks development
Will you give him credit for Ricks having a shite attitude, being a quitter, and transferring out? This isn’t solely about the draft
quote:
Collins was a 4star as well per 247sports
Yea man just go to whichever recruiting service to cherry-pick whichever star rating you want. I also included Collins in my breakdown, so go frick yourself
quote:
White, Delpit, Adams, Fulton, Jackson, Williams, Stingley, Collins, Stingley,
Ricks
You listed Stingley twice, a guy who transferred out, a 3 star, and a guy who was drafted in the 5th round. All of whom were mentioned in one way or another in my post. But I’m the one trying to set a narrative
fricking moronThis post was edited on 12/9/21 at 10:07 am
Posted on 12/9/21 at 10:13 am to Forever
Great Analysis.
The State of Louisiana seems to generate a pretty high level of high “star” talent for DB / Safety that most any coach at the position is going to reel in more than enough talent. It’s the development thereafter and ability to bring along a cohesive unit that doesn’t have assignment breakdowns which is of greater importance.
The State of Louisiana seems to generate a pretty high level of high “star” talent for DB / Safety that most any coach at the position is going to reel in more than enough talent. It’s the development thereafter and ability to bring along a cohesive unit that doesn’t have assignment breakdowns which is of greater importance.
Posted on 12/9/21 at 10:37 am to Forever
pretty eye opening if we're being honest
Posted on 12/9/21 at 11:39 am to AlwysATgr
.
Thanks for this quote AlwysATiger, Very few people on this board appreciate the good things players, coaches, players and fans do for LSU.
quote:
I expect Kelly to make a great hire and DBU will live on but Raymond should only be appreciated by Tiger fans.
Thanks for this quote AlwysATiger, Very few people on this board appreciate the good things players, coaches, players and fans do for LSU.
Posted on 12/9/21 at 11:45 am to Bottom9
quote:
Dwayne Thomas (disappointing career)
Maybe had the best individual performance outside of anyone on the 2019 team against Bama the past decade
Posted on 12/9/21 at 11:54 am to Bottom9
quote:
Jacoby Stevens - 5*
Played WR his first year
Posted on 12/9/21 at 12:00 pm to Woodman
quote:
The State of Louisiana seems to generate a pretty high level of high “star” talent for DB / Safety
Problem is Raymond wasn't hitting the state that hard. Since 2017 only Stingly, Harris and Joseph were in state signees.
With Frank on staff he wont be missed nearly as much as some think.
This post was edited on 12/9/21 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 12/9/21 at 12:01 pm to USMCTIGER1970
quote:
Played WR his first year
What’s your point?
Posted on 12/9/21 at 12:07 pm to Forever
Good points. LSU recruits itself in football. Giving any assistant credit for LSU’s recruiting success is like giving a tv weatherman credit because the sun rose in the east as expected this morning.
Louisiana produces a large number of good DB prospects and LSU will get its share of those unless the coaches run them off. We’ll do fine as long as Kelly hires a reasonably competent coach. The odds of that happening are much higher under Kelly than under his two predecessors, so we should be fine.
Louisiana produces a large number of good DB prospects and LSU will get its share of those unless the coaches run them off. We’ll do fine as long as Kelly hires a reasonably competent coach. The odds of that happening are much higher under Kelly than under his two predecessors, so we should be fine.
Page 1 of 2
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News