re: The Wheel of Time -- Season 2 coming in September -- Wise Ones Thread (Book Spoilers)

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Matt has been one of the best parts of the show

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I strongly disagree

Mat has not been remotely similar to the books

He has been brooding, self-hating, and depressing. . .even before the ruby hilted dagger.

In the books, he is great. In the show, he is Sam Winchester. . .minus the strained humor.

Re-read the 1st book. You are having a Mandela effect.

Mat sucks in the first two books.

He doesn’t “become Mat” until Book 3.

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He is the same mischievous scamp, who is always trying to be funny. . .until the dagger.

In the show, he is super serious and brooding from the moment he is introduced.

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This is correct. Matt was mischievous from the start.
Even taking the dagger in SG was a mischievous Matt moment after being specifically told not to take anything by Moraine, but in the show it was just a "hey look what's in this chest." They completely got his character wrong.

All of the kids were outgoing in the books, which was intentional. They became darker and more stoic as a result of their experiences. One of the biggest turnoffs for me with the show is how they all started off serious and dour.

Probably my biggest complaint is the dude playing Perrin's portrayal.

I'm sure that's how they are telling him to act, but he comes across as if Perrin is mentally challenged.

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dude playing Perrin

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is the weakest part of the show by far, always seems like he has a mouthful of mush when he is talking and as you rightly pointed out the guy seems to be just one dead mouse shy from being Lennie from Of Mice and Men...

In the books, he is slow and careful in his speech. They say people think him dull, because of this.

He does, and it’s difficult to determine if this is by direction or just bad acting. I think a bit of both, because it feels like they don’t get these characters very much.

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All mat does after taking the dagger is complain. He is by and large disliked by readers until book 3 or 4. Seriously yall need to reread the books.

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Seriously. We read the books. Did you even pay attention to what we are saying? Pre dagger he was mischievous Matt. It’s why he took the dagger and completely disregarded Morraine’s order. He didn’t care, because he was selfish.

Nobody stated that once he took the dagger he was still mischievous Matt. He was corrupted and an arse. Yes he was completely disliked until he blew the horn. That’s when he began to change into caring Matt even though he still tried to be bloody selfish.

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And the dagger sequence is so much worse in the books. He at least has the motivation of stealing for his sisters in the show. He literally pulls “let me ignore what moraine just said and pick this up cause it’s pretty” in the books.

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Right, which is again our point. This was by design of Jordan. It was important to his development from mischievous, selfish matt to mischievous caring Matt. Character development is what Jordan nailed in this series. The showrunners instead decided to skip all of that and have to give him a noble reason to all of his actions, which is directly opposed to the young Matt in the books. His taking the dagger in the show was literally just seeing it in a chest and grabbing it. There was nothing to it at all, which is precisely the problem.

Perrin is yet another example of having to give reason to his character. They gave him a wife that he kills? What the frick. Now he walks around sad and goofy rather than being noble and thoughtful. As Fun said, in the books he is mistaken as slow due to his taking his time to think things through. For the show they just had to change his reasons for things.

I don’t understand why the hell people take source materials to translate onto screen if they don’t like and respect the damn source materials. Instead they have to change the things they think is better and that they believe the creator did wrong. It’s insulting to the embedded fan base. They take us for granted, because they expect us to be a built in audience. The problem is they are too shortsighted to see the blowback they will receive.

Most of these changes are not done due to screen adaptation issues; they are done due to arrogance and bad storytelling.

Ehhh

Mat did the badger thing in EF which made him come across like a child, but other than that he didn’t have much of a character until 3.

RJ has commented that he has no clue whatsoever how to write him or what he was doing with him until tDR.

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Moiraine later asks if Mordeth gave them anything after hearing the story when they get back and Matt says no because he took it and wasn't given it.

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This is the part I am remembering, so Morraine asking them afterwards was the part where she emphasizes not to take anything. I just reread the chapter (EotW 19), and this is what you get from it:

1. these are kids looking to sneak around behind their backs the same way we did our parents

2. Matt is the excited, mischievous kid that is looking for fun and treasure, just as we have been saying

3. You don't learn of the dagger in this chapter at all. They see the treasure, but nowhere did Jordan reveal that any of them took anything.

4. After Mordeth flees, Rand says to Matt they want nothing of his, and he and Perrin grab Matt and drag him out while he protests the entire time that they need to grab some treasure. Matt never once reveals he grabbed the dagger.

5. Morraine scolds them for sneaking off, then while they are telling their story she stops them when she hears the name Mordeth and anxiously asks if he touched them or gave them anything.

6. They all say no, which is obviously Matt lying to hide his one treasure that he procured (which we learn about as the book goes on).

7. Morraine tells the tale of Shadar Logoth, and she specifically states about Mordeths gifts "some he has influenced through gifts that taint the mind and taint the spirit, the taint waxing and waning until it rules or kills," and then explains how he will take the soul and body to leave the city. Matt then says "but we are safe now aren't we? He didn't give us anything, and he didn't touch us."Morraine then explains they are safe, because he can't leave the place nor can he cross their wards.

7 cont: This shows Matt twice lying that he didn't take anything. Sure she says "give" and he confirms "give," but that is exactly what we are trying to explain in our complaints: Matt is mischievous and self centered, and he is looking for loopholes to justify his taking of the treasure and not telling anyone.


What does all of this mean and why is it important? It shows the nature of each of the characters, and it is the foundation of who they are and how they grow from here. Matt is not this person in the TV series. None of them are fun or outgoing. They are all very dour, serious and boring. Matt was very deceptive with the dagger, because he is a mischievous kid looking and finding treasure and not wanting to have it taken away from him.


Giving Perrin the ridiculous marriage and subsequent wife killing, and giving Matt the purpose of saving his sisters both undermine the entire purpose of Jordan's journey: innocent, naïve youths go out looking for adventure and turning into the hard men that they become. Instead they start off hard and serious, so the journey no longer has the growth of both their characters and their maturation from children to adults.

Plus it makes the show incredibly boring.