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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 12/6/13 at 7:39 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 12/6/13 at 7:39 pm to OMLandshark
I figure Jaime will end up being the one that has to kill Ceresi.
1
Posted on 12/6/13 at 7:58 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
I figure Jaime will end up being the one that has to kill Ceresi.
He will be, since I think she'll pull an Aerys and rig King's Landing to blow once Littlefinger betrays her in killing the Freys and taking the Vale and Riverlands with him. I think the Tyrells and Tarlys will open the gates of King's Landing for Aegon's army, and Margeary will escape her wrath. Cersei then proceeds to poison Tommen, and tells her pyromancer or Qyburn to light the city on fire.
Jaime then shows up, to which Cersei is overjoyed saying that she always knew they'd die together. Jaime interrupts her asking where Tommen is, and then once he gets the answer, he then asks her if she knows why he truly killed Aerys. She says that Jaime did his duty as a Lannister and secured their family's legacy. Jaime says she is wrong and goes into details on why he killed Aerys. Slowly but surely Cersei realizes that she herself had turned into the Mad King and that Jaime was here to kill her, and that he was the true Valonqar. After finishing his story, Jaime tells her that he had secured Tommen's life and the Lannister legacy, but she destroyed it all, and then Jaime strangles and kills her.
Posted on 12/6/13 at 9:35 pm to OMLandshark
:mindblowngif: 
Posted on 12/6/13 at 10:12 pm to TaxmanMSU
quote:
Jaime then shows up, to which Cersei is overjoyed saying that she always knew they'd die together. Jaime interrupts her asking where Tommen is, and then once he gets the answer, he then asks her if she knows why he truly killed Aerys. She says that Jaime did his duty as a Lannister and secured their family's legacy. Jaime says she is wrong and goes into details on why he killed Aerys. Slowly but surely Cersei realizes that she herself had turned into the Mad King and that Jaime was here to kill her, and that he was the true Valonqar. After finishing his story, Jaime tells her that he had secured Tommen's life and the Lannister legacy, but she destroyed it all, and then Jaime strangles and kills her.
Damn.
Posted on 12/6/13 at 10:14 pm to StarSaint
Btw - just starting my second re-read of the books. I was so anxious to finish the books after HBO season three that I probably missed a lot of important details.
Already midway through Bk 1 and am finding stuff that I missed before.
Already midway through Bk 1 and am finding stuff that I missed before.
Posted on 12/6/13 at 10:26 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
And Jaime is pretty damn remorseful of it. It's pretty much his only big regret in his life is letting Rhaegar's children get slaughtered by his own father's men (that and letting Tyrion loose to kill his father).
That is also my basis in it too; think about it. Barristan and Jaime were the only 2 of Aerys's Kingsguard to survive. Barristan is with Dany, who is a true Targ. Since GRRM loves parallels, I could easily see Jaime going to Jon upon learning he's Rhaegar's son. I could see Jaime wanting to help Jon, and I think some of it would be, in an odd way, to make up for what he did to the Starks in AGOT. Jaime has a long way to go, but I think being Jon's Kingmaker before he dies will be a true act of redemption in the readers' eyes. That and killing Cersei, of course. I always pictured Jaime to outlive Cersei, even if it's not by a whole lot. I don't think his character arc is even close to being over and he'll stick through TWoW; whereas I could see Cersei being dead meat by the end of TWoW.
If you could, can you re-copy and paste your TWoW character death list that you posted on here a while back?
quote:
Jaime is on a redemption arc. I do think he will die, but I think it will be a glorious death that he always wanted. Cersei is the Lannister heading for tragedy, and I am completely unsure of whether Tyrion's arc will take him to triumph or sorrow.
I kind of want Tyrion to turn into Tywin; after all Genna told Jaime that Tyrion is Tywin's son (FWIW I don't subscribe to any of the Lannister secret Targ theories but I think Tyrion is far more like Tywin than Jaime is)...he already became a huge a-hole in ADWD and I could see him becoming the 'bad' guy. I would actually come to respect GRRM's writing ability even more if he could make Tyrion one of the 'enemies'. A lot of book readers whine that show Tyrion is whitewashed, but I think some of them have selective memory and seem to forget that he really doesn't downward spiral until he kills Tywin at the end of ASOS and his story in ADWD.
Posted on 12/7/13 at 3:02 am to TigerintheNO
quote:
Did he send him to her? He was dismissed so the Hound could join the guard and maybe Varys was behind that, but did he send him to her. Months before that he tried to have her killed.
I don't think Varys intended to "send" Selmy anywhere. He just wanted him out of Westeros. Selmy definitely stood in Illyrio/Varys way. Too talented to kill and too smart to allow to rule once Tyrion, Tywin and Kevan were dealt with. I don't think they really cared where Selmy went as long as he left kings landing. I imagine they expected him to go to Stannis whose campaign never really stood a real threat against the throne.
Yea Stannis could have won the battle of black water and claimed the throne briefly. But for how long? And to what end? Tywin and the Tyrells would have him besieged within the month and with Stannis' massive losses at sea the lannister/tyrell alliance would hold a significant sea superiority with Oldtown being a vassal of the Tyrells.
Even now with Selmy with Dany and her dragons he's pretty much a non-factor at this point. Aegon is attacking storms end will Dany is somewhere between playing queen and lost in te dothraki sea.
Posted on 12/7/13 at 4:10 am to CottonWasKing
quote:
Yea Stannis could have won the battle of black water and claimed the throne briefly. But for how long? And to what end? Tywin and the Tyrells would have him besieged within the month and with Stannis' massive losses at sea the lannister/tyrell alliance would hold a significant sea superiority with Oldtown being a vassal of the Tyrells.
If Stannis won the Battle of Blackwater, it would have been game over!
Stannis would hold King's Landing & Dragonstone! The Stormlands would declare House Baratheon, their Lord.
The North & the Riverlands would be at war with Castley Rock.
The Greyjoys wouldn't challenge Stannis after he already kicked Victarion's arse in the Greyjoy Rebellion.
Posted on 12/7/13 at 6:52 am to TigerintheNO
As I said Stannis would hold the iron throne but he would've been besieged by the two richest and most powerful families in the 7 kingdoms within a month. He would've been completely cut off from any resupply efforts, not that any would've come seeing as how he had practically no military presence outside of his main force which would be besieged with him.
Tyrion's little trick with the chain cost Stannis naval superiority (his only strength). If you've read the new novella then you know that holding the throne hardly means you've won the war. Stannis may have held kings landing for a year. Three tops but unless Robb marched south and lifted the siege set by Tywin then Stannis was doomed to lose it and die in the process. And Robb at the time had only won one battle, which admittedly was a huge blow to the lannister forces at whispering wood, and by then had heard tale of how Stannis used black magic to kill Renly, his own brother.
The smart thing for Robb to do would be to hold the north while continuing to win battles in the westerlands and basically steal the lannister riches. Allowing him to strengthen, bolster and rest his own forces while his main threat either sits idle and withers away holding kings landing at siege or decimates itself by storming the walls.
Stannis winning at black water practically ensures a Stark victory but it doesn't really do much for Stannis' cause unless he managed to kill Cersei, Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen. And even then it's not like Tywin would just slink back to casterly rock defeated.
Stannis was a fricking fool to set sail for kings landing. It was entirely to early in the game to attempt a move to take the king. Especially when you're playing a game in which taking the king doesn't ensure victory
Tyrion's little trick with the chain cost Stannis naval superiority (his only strength). If you've read the new novella then you know that holding the throne hardly means you've won the war. Stannis may have held kings landing for a year. Three tops but unless Robb marched south and lifted the siege set by Tywin then Stannis was doomed to lose it and die in the process. And Robb at the time had only won one battle, which admittedly was a huge blow to the lannister forces at whispering wood, and by then had heard tale of how Stannis used black magic to kill Renly, his own brother.
The smart thing for Robb to do would be to hold the north while continuing to win battles in the westerlands and basically steal the lannister riches. Allowing him to strengthen, bolster and rest his own forces while his main threat either sits idle and withers away holding kings landing at siege or decimates itself by storming the walls.
Stannis winning at black water practically ensures a Stark victory but it doesn't really do much for Stannis' cause unless he managed to kill Cersei, Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen. And even then it's not like Tywin would just slink back to casterly rock defeated.
Stannis was a fricking fool to set sail for kings landing. It was entirely to early in the game to attempt a move to take the king. Especially when you're playing a game in which taking the king doesn't ensure victory
Posted on 12/7/13 at 12:16 pm to CottonWasKing
100% spot on. Stannis should've been playing the long game, i.e. Doran, Varys, Littlefinger, but he wasn't. Melisandre is his doom and I think she's going to betray him; in her 1 POV chapter she said "all I see is Snow..." Snow with a capital S, as in Jon Snow.
Posted on 12/7/13 at 12:26 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
He will be, since I think she'll pull an Aerys and rig King's Landing to blow once Littlefinger betrays her in killing the Freys and taking the Vale and Riverlands with him. I think the Tyrells and Tarlys will open the gates of King's Landing for Aegon's army, and Margeary will escape her wrath. Cersei then proceeds to poison Tommen, and tells her pyromancer or Qyburn to light the city on fire.
Jaime then shows up, to which Cersei is overjoyed saying that she always knew they'd die together. Jaime interrupts her asking where Tommen is, and then once he gets the answer, he then asks her if she knows why he truly killed Aerys. She says that Jaime did his duty as a Lannister and secured their family's legacy. Jaime says she is wrong and goes into details on why he killed Aerys. Slowly but surely Cersei realizes that she herself had turned into the Mad King and that Jaime was here to kill her, and that he was the true Valonqar. After finishing his story, Jaime tells her that he had secured Tommen's life and the Lannister legacy, but she destroyed it all, and then Jaime strangles and kills her.
I definitely think he'll be her Valonqar; and the Tyrells are a bunch of opportunists so I can see them early on in TWoW officially abandoning the Tyrell-Lannister alliance and vouching for Faegon. Could also see them 'opening' the gates for Faegon's forces to sack King's Landing like the Lannisters did when Robert took over. Cersei is dead meat in TWoW; I just don't see her outliving that book. Wouldn't that be awesome; Jaime kills her, sits on the IT; Kingslayer, kinslayer, Queenslayer.
. Although, I'm hoping that Jaime hauls arse out of there and goes to Jon; but that's a big IF, and assuming if GRRM plans on revealing his parentage anytime soon. Also, I 100% believe that the paintings Littlefinger requested from Cersei were Targaryen portraits. Better believe that Littlefinger, being the opportunist that he is, wants to save his arse before pleding his loyalty to Faegon or Dany. It's a win-win situation because he'll have them fooled with those Targ portraits.
Posted on 12/7/13 at 12:33 pm to ladytiger118
quote:
Tyrells are a bunch of opportunists so I can see them early on in TWoW officially abandoning the Tyrell-Lannister alliance
Yes you can call them opportunist, though in my opinion House Lannister holds that title, they are loyal. Rhaegar & Aerys Targaryen were both dead and they still hadn't bent a knee.
Posted on 12/7/13 at 12:43 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
He will be, since I think she'll pull an Aerys and rig King's Landing to blow once Littlefinger betrays her in killing the Freys and taking the Vale and Riverlands with him. I think the Tyrells and Tarlys will open the gates of King's Landing for Aegon's army, and Margeary will escape her wrath. Cersei then proceeds to poison Tommen, and tells her pyromancer or Qyburn to light the city on fire.
Jaime then shows up, to which Cersei is overjoyed saying that she always knew they'd die together. Jaime interrupts her asking where Tommen is, and then once he gets the answer, he then asks her if she knows why he truly killed Aerys. She says that Jaime did his duty as a Lannister and secured their family's legacy. Jaime says she is wrong and goes into details on why he killed Aerys. Slowly but surely Cersei realizes that she herself had turned into the Mad King and that Jaime was here to kill her, and that he was the true Valonqar. After finishing his story, Jaime tells her that he had secured Tommen's life and the Lannister legacy, but she destroyed it all, and then Jaime strangles and kills her.
Hodor
Posted on 12/7/13 at 12:45 pm to Clockwatcher68
Hodor?
Posted on 12/7/13 at 1:02 pm to ladytiger118
A Haiku by Hodor:
Hodor Ho-Hodor
Hodor Hodor Hodor Ho-
Hodor Ho-Hodor.
Hodor Ho-Hodor
Hodor Hodor Hodor Ho-
Hodor Ho-Hodor.
Posted on 12/7/13 at 1:05 pm to ladytiger118
quote:
If you could, can you re-copy and paste your TWoW character death list that you posted on here a while back?
Here ya go.
quote:
It's going to be a bloodbath. My guesses on deaths within the novel:
Cersei
Barristan
Victarion
Theon
Stannis
Melisandre
Ramsay
Roose
Brienne
Aeron
Connington
Qyburn
Robert Strong
Almost all of House Frey
Tommen
Myrcella
Bejen
Bowen Marsh
Jojen
Hodor (think it will probably be the saddest death in the series)
To add to this:
Prologue Character: Bejen
Epilogue Character: Stannis
Posted on 12/7/13 at 2:40 pm to OMLandshark
Thanks
Posted on 12/7/13 at 7:24 pm to OMLandshark
Are you saying that Stannis will die twice? With the deaths of Stannis & Tommen, House Baratheon would die out.
Posted on 12/7/13 at 8:16 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
Are you saying that Stannis will die twice? With the deaths of Stannis & Tommen, House Baratheon would die out.
Well, I actually think he will die twice, but not in the way you think I mean. At the end of TWoW, Stannis will stay at the Wall with his army while Jon retreats to fight another day. Basically most the chapter will come from Stannis' head about his life and the bitterness that he was not truly Azor Ahai. Then the Others will come down and they will either take him or he will go willingly. Stannis will have a special possession, and become the Great Other. As he dies, he will be reborn and you briefly get his perspective of being the Great Other. Jon will then slay him permanently in the next novel.
This post was edited on 12/7/13 at 8:18 pm
Posted on 12/7/13 at 8:31 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
Read the Heresy or R+L=J threads. In six months when youre done start the Great Northern Conspiracy.
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