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LordSnow
LSU Fan
Round Rock (BR is a dumpster fire)
Member since May 2011
4141 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
I almost went with the SV pb12 but decided on the hsu research VTF-15H MK2 899 and will shake the walls


Obtuse1
Wofford Fan
The Diversion
Member since Sep 2016
2550 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
Hsu makes great subs and the VTF-15 will have more midbass than the comparably priced SVS just like the 18" PSA. The SVS still has the advantage of free return shipping if he decides to go smaller and size up if not happy during the initial 45 days.

The SVS bill of rights also lets you trade up for up to a year and get full credit for a smaller sub but you have to pay shipping but it is the best deal for someone not sure what they actually need.


Mahootney
Florida State Fan
Lovin' My German Footprint
Member since Sep 2008
7722 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
Updated:
quote:

Psa 15v - $950
Psa v1500 - $1100
Psa v1801 - $1400

Svs pb12+ - $1000 ($1400 normal)
Svs pb13 ultra - $1400 ($2000 normal)
Svs pb 2000 - $800

HSU VTF-15H MK2 ($900)
HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP ($800)

Leaning towards Psa v1500, SVS pb12+, and HSU VTF-15H MK2.

Not sure I really need the top tier subs (for my watching use... of mostly movies on TV).
But, I'm starting to get snobby and wanting more than just the F-150's.
This post was edited on 12/6 at 9:30 pm


Mahootney
Florida State Fan
Lovin' My German Footprint
Member since Sep 2008
7722 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
PSA Outputs:
15V
16-25Hz: 115.8 dB
31-50Hz: 124.0 dB
63-100Hz: 126.3 dB
16-100Hz: 123.2 dB

V1500
16-25Hz: 116.7 dB
31-50Hz: 124.5 dB
63-100Hz: 126.7 dB
16-100Hz: 123.8 dB

V1801
16-25Hz: 120.1 dB
31-50Hz: 129.5 dB
63-100Hz: 129.6 dB
16-100Hz: 127.4 dB


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Mahootney
Florida State Fan
Lovin' My German Footprint
Member since Sep 2008
7722 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
Went to listen to svs sb2000 at Best Buy. Kinda weak in a room 1/3-1/4 the size of mine. Not sure how much was designed to steer me to the $1600 b&w.


Obtuse1
Wofford Fan
The Diversion
Member since Sep 2016
2550 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
quote:

Went to listen to svs sb2000 at Best Buy. Kinda weak in a room 1/3-1/4 the size of mine. Not sure how much was designed to steer me to the $1600 b&w.


I assume that B&W was a 700 and not one of their better subs on some super sale. If it was a 700 then they were pulling a fast one, even the sealed SB2000 will stomp a mudhole in the B&W if they are both set up correctly. Those B&Ws do have long throw woofers but so does SVS and those little 10s have to have nearly 50% more excursion to match a 12". The B&Ws are designed to be small and pretty and the B&W name adds a LOT to the price. No matter how you slice it subs are simple beasts and don't need the high dollar R&D that say a B&W Nautilus speaker with a diamond tweeter has behind them.

If you want to skip the F150 just get the PSA V1801 it will likely blow your socks off and bring the shock and awe to your buddies during a demo. The thing about good speakers and subs is they can stay in various systems around your house for decades. I have speakers that are coming up on their 30th birthday and I still find a spot to use them. The vast majority of AV gear becomes obsolete in a very short time but amps and speakers can last more than a lifetime.

I am not trying to upsale you and I don't know if the extra money is a months pay or pocket lint for you (nor do I care) but you can't really go wrong with the V1801 as long as your SO is cool with a 2 foot cube. The latter is why B&W and so many others can overcharge for cute little subs with nice cabinets.


Mahootney
Florida State Fan
Lovin' My German Footprint
Member since Sep 2008
7722 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
The money isn't that big of a deal.
But without knowing the difference, it's hard to know if I'd be buying more than I want or need.
One could easily keep convincing themselves a little more. A little more. And end up with a $3k sub when the $1k one was what was needed.


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Mahootney
Florida State Fan
Lovin' My German Footprint
Member since Sep 2008
7722 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
But now I'm getting curious about how to really differentiate between my 7 main options and make a selection.
Top 2 psa's, 3 svs's, 2 hsu's.

I have a feeling it's gonna be hard to do without finding an awesome store (and not that obvious Best Buy bull shite scam they tried to pull today).


Mahootney
Florida State Fan
Lovin' My German Footprint
Member since Sep 2008
7722 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
I guess you can always go big and just dial it back. Is that a legitimate option?

If so, how about we discuss the top svs vs psa and why one is better than the other and why.


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Obtuse1
Wofford Fan
The Diversion
Member since Sep 2016
2550 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
Lets talk about why bigger is better, You remember when I mentioned my HT build with 20 18" subwoofers and 28kW rms of power runnning them? Sure part of it is building what is easily in the top ten most powerful subwoofer systems in the US which could literally cause structural damage to my 3500 cuft room and would be the equal of over 40 PSA 1801s there is also a legitimate audio reason for this. At 16hz this system will be loafing along at 130dB not stressing anything. The harmonic distortion will be very low and the remaining headroom would be very high and the chances of port noise at any volume level a human could endure are almost nil.

Your room is big and open so there will be times that most any commercial sub will be asked to produce its maximum effort in some action movies etc. It is like asking the F150 to tow a little over its capacity on occasion, it is much nicer to have a F350 that just laughs off the load and doesn't even stress its Truck Nutz. The F150 will be making ugly sounds letting you know it is unhappy but the F350 will just be purring along asking "is this all you got?". In that big room there are going to be times you want/need a little more and having as much as you are willing to buy will be welcome at those times. The key is how often are you gonna pull that big trailer and if the F350 is worth it to you for those times.

No matter how capable a subwoofer is it should be calibrated within the full system and your Onkyo will do it with its software (I forget the name of their proprietary room correction software they use after they dropped Audyssey). So even if you had 10 1801s they should never be obnoxious, they would just loaf along and not be stressed. (I will say most AV nuts run their subs "hot" by that I mean add 2-3db or more to the sub track in the AVR settings after it is calibrated) More is never an issue because the throttle never gets pushed as hard.

Coming from no sub means any of the ones you are looking at will like seem a huge upgrade, if you have the money go big the first time and I am pretty sure you will never regret it except when you move it.

Outside of the return shipping with SVS I prefer the 1801 to the PB12Plus just because it has more raw capability in the mid-bass area something very important to the mental impact of a sub. The one thing there is no denying is the SVS looks like a more commercial/finished product and that is one of the things you are paying extra for and why the PSA has more performance potential. Better paint job/weaker engine. This is something you have to make a personal choice about.

From my POV you have to ask yourself how often do I watch a movie at (or above) movie theater sound levels. The rarer that is the easier it is to go with one of the cheaper subs. Between SVS and PSA you have to decide how important looks are to you and your SO as well as how hidden it will be.


Mahootney
Florida State Fan
Lovin' My German Footprint
Member since Sep 2008
7722 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
Great points.
What about 1801 vs pb13-ultra?
Seems to be same price. $1400 each.


Obtuse1
Wofford Fan
The Diversion
Member since Sep 2016
2550 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
The Ultra 13 is closer but still loses on pure output. The Ultra13 is discontinued (thus the price). With so many ID manufacturers using 18" drivers SVS was more or less forced to have a bigger flagship than a 13". The thing about the Ultra13 is it is a sexy product (well as sexy as a shiny black box can be) and a very polished consumer product. The 1801 is more utilitarian in appearance. You just have to decide if you want more horsepower or prettier paint and slicker user controls. You will likely be very happy with both. I have to say if I was putting a sub in a multi-purpose living area like yours I might well go for the SVS in this case with in deference to my wife, however, the shiny cube actually draws more attention to itself and some SOs might prefer something less shiny that tends to catch the eye less. I personally am used to huge ugly boxes but they are hidden behind an acoustically transparent projection screen or built into furniture as I am a hobby woodworker so I don't think much about the looks of a sub.

Honestly, just flip a coin between the two unless either looks or the last bit of performance pushes you one way or another, both are serious subs and with a high mid-range name like B&W on them along with maybe some real wood veneer they would command $4k price tags.


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Trauma14
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2010
3594 posts
 Online 

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
Selling the sb12 on amazon for same price and free shipping on prime.


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DeoreDX
Member since Oct 2010
2637 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
quote:

Any list that does not include LINK / is invalid. They have 45 day money back guarantee.


I still have my giant SVS tube subwoofer I bought in the early 2000's when they first started buildings Subs. Mine is unamplified but that this is so efficient a little 100W plate amp would rattle the windows in my old shitty house with mid 70's aluminum framed windows. New house has nice double pane windows so I no longer get the window rattling effect any more


NewIberiaHaircut
LSU Fan
Lafayette
Member since May 2013
7684 posts
 Online 

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
My Epik sub (now out of business) still rattles all of the cabinets in my house.


Obtuse1
Wofford Fan
The Diversion
Member since Sep 2016
2550 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
quote:


My Epik sub (now out of business) still rattles all of the cabinets in my house.


How many times has the amp been repaired/replaced? If it hasn't it is merely a matter of time. Decent driver and usually really nice boxes but the amps were crap. Chad really screwed the pooch with his electronics choices and it cost him his business and a lot of good will.


NewIberiaHaircut
LSU Fan
Lafayette
Member since May 2013
7684 posts
 Online 

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
It hasn't been replaced or repaired yet but I've had many conversations with Chad before he closed shop. I'm going to keep this sub till it breaks.


Obtuse1
Wofford Fan
The Diversion
Member since Sep 2016
2550 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
When it does die just replace the plate amp or seal it and power it with a low cost pro amp like a Bahringer iNuke 1000, you can get the DSP version for $200 and have full DSP control and make the sub much more capable.


Mahootney
Florida State Fan
Lovin' My German Footprint
Member since Sep 2008
7722 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
Oh shite. My house has wood frame single pane windows. I'm not gonna bust them or make them dance am I? Lol.


SuddenJerk
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Oct 2017
163 posts

re: New Subwoofer - Onkyo tx-nr676
quote:

I almost went with the SV pb12 but decided on the hsu research VTF-15H MK2 899 and will shake the walls


I second HSU. The dude has been building subs for over 20 years and has great customer service.


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