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Started By
Message
re: SBI: Donovan admits to initial bitterness towards USMNT
Posted on 6/30/14 at 1:49 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
Posted on 6/30/14 at 1:49 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
if you count Guzan
i definitely would..
but yea maybe it was a straw that broke the camels back type thing.
either way, although we obviously adamantly disagree about much of it
I get your point and for all purposes he prbly should have been on the roster. 
1
Posted on 6/30/14 at 1:52 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
And you're doing the same?
I'm providing a differing viewpoint from you while not saying that you have a problem or don't get it.
So no.
quote:
I'm saying that that's an impossible determination to make until we have an end result. And even then, we don't know that if we bring Donovan that he doesn't make a huge mistake and cost us another goal versus ghana or Portugal. While, I think, I could be wrong, that no matter what you think it was a bad decision.
We also don't know if the world is going to end tomorrow. Playing the hypothetical game won't go anywhere.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 1:59 pm to petar
I do understand your points as well and have found your arguments potentially making sense. You are not openly defending Jurgen on the decision, but rather attempting to rationalize the process. It will ultimately go down as one of the most bizarre decisions in USMNT history.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:05 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
rather attempting to rationalize the process.
yep basically so. I doubt we will ever know the truth about it til one of them comes out with a book
quote:
It will ultimately go down as one of the most bizarre decisions in USMNT history.
certianly will, hopefully a result of the tourny will erase some of this
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:32 pm to Broski
quote:
I'm providing a differing viewpoint from you while not saying that you have a problem or don't get it.
quote:
You are completely missing what we are arguing.
So yes.
And I apologized. Twice. I just don't get the negativity.
quote:
We also don't know if the world is going to end tomorrow. Playing the hypothetical game won't go anywhere.
Saying that no matter what, having Donovan would automatically make us better is also a hypothetical. It isn't a fact. It depends on factors that no one knows, like what Jurgen's overall plan is, what Donovan acted like in camp, etc.
What we do know is that we made it through the group of death and we have a good shot at the quarters, that's a good thing, so the decision SHOULD be becoming less and less of a problem as Jurgen is moving us further along the road.
This post was edited on 6/30/14 at 2:33 pm
Posted on 6/30/14 at 2:42 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
You are not openly defending Jurgen on the decision, but rather attempting to rationalize the process.
Is anyone who tries to believe that Jurgen made a call to win in this thread not rationalizing the process? That's all this is about.
No one has said, "Jurgen made the right call by not bringing Donovan." Heck, imo you bring Donovan. I would have before the cup. I just see the logic, or potential logic, behind the decision Jurgen made, and I can trust, or at least believe, that he made the decision to give the team the best chance to win.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:08 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
It will ultimately go down as one of the most bizarre decisions in USMNT history.
Absolutely.
We started Brad Davis against Germany; there's just not an acceptable, soccer-related reason for that to have happened in such a huge game.
I still can't believe Landon Donovan was watching in a suit on ESPN while that shite actually took place.
Of course I'm thrilled with our success in making it out of the group, and I think that Jurgen has done a lot of great things.
That doesn't make the Donovan decision any less absurd.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:10 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
We started Brad Davis against Germany; there's just not an acceptable, soccer-related reason for that to have happened in such a huge game.
I think there was a soccer related reason for this.. defend and win set pieces.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:13 pm to petar
quote:
I think there was a soccer related reason for this.. defend and win set pieces.
Didn't we have to move Davis around to hide him defensively in that match because he was getting exposed so badly?
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:14 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
Didn't we have to move Davis around to hide him defensively in that match because he was getting exposed so badly?
Not saying it was a good or bad decision, but there was a soccer related reason to bring Davis to the World cup.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:17 pm to petar
quote:
Not saying it was a good or bad decision
If he started for defensive reasons, as you suggested, then I can say with a good deal of certainty that it was a bad decision.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:19 pm to NawlinsTiger9
he started i think mainly for set piece reasons as he is left footed and known for his ability on them.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:21 pm to petar
I understand that, but don't you think it is somewhat misguided to start someone based on one particular skill set that may or may not ever have a chance to be used in a 90+ minute match?
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:26 pm to fightingtigers98
Has ESPN dropped him from World Cup coverage? I've haven't seen him since the Portugal game. I guess they realized he's dry as dirt and isn't really giving them any analysis when they ask him questions. He'd pussy foot around them saying he didn't want to give away stuff or talk bad about players. Even though that's what ESPN brought him on for.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:26 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
don't you think it is somewhat misguided to start someone based on one particular skill set that may or may not ever have a chance to be used in a 90+ minute match?
No, beckham made a career of it. klose/ peter crouch as well/ etc.
Against germany, it is likely we would not see huge #'s in possession and have too many chances to score. Therefore a player who is better in those regards are not as important. If we could have sat back, played D and kept them out 1 free kick could have been the deciding factor
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:27 pm to NawlinsTiger9
This is the crux of the argument. The decision and our results are two separate entities.
I believe the reason we started Brad Davis for his set piece skills because we had to play like Greece to best Germany. I do not support that decision, but I guess it could rationalized.
To me, there is no rationalization of the Donovan decision.
I believe the reason we started Brad Davis for his set piece skills because we had to play like Greece to best Germany. I do not support that decision, but I guess it could rationalized.
To me, there is no rationalization of the Donovan decision.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:30 pm to petar
quote:
No, beckham made a career of it. klose/ peter crouch as well/ etc.
Goal poachers/scorers are ALWAYS needed, and they have a chance to score throughout the game.
Free kicks are not guaranteed.
These players also brought more to the table than they took from it - can you honestly say that Brad Davis does that?
Again, you keep referencing defense as being crucial in the game Brad Davis started for us - he was beaten so badly that we were lucky to not give up more goals than we did. We had to shift him around to hide him.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:32 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
To me, there is no rationalization of the Donovan decision.
Agreed.
To support that decision is to believe that every player we brought could help us win more than he could, which is absolutely ridiculous.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:40 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
To support that decision is to believe that every player we brought could help us win more than he could, which is absolutely ridiculous
This statement is absolutely ridiculous and is over simplifying the problem. There have been plenty of instances in all different sports of this being untrue. Some times there are scheme or personal reasons to leaving a player off
Ronaldinho was left off the brazil 2010 team and he was more talented than others. Argentina's roster has been questioned multiple times in last 2 world cups. etc.
and lets not get into the NFL and player decisions there.
quote:
Free kicks are not guaranteed.
Neither are goal scoring chances.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 3:44 pm to NawlinsTiger9
quote:
NawlinsTiger9
We heard the same arguments against beckham. He is only good on set pieces and with his right foot.
quote:
These players also brought more to the table than they took from it - can you honestly say that Brad Davis does that?
Yes compared to different tables, No Davis isn't as good as beckham or Klose. Then again the WAR (wins above replacment) of Davis to Bedoya (or other) is similar to the difference of WAR of Beckham to scholes or wright phillips or Joe Cole or Klose to Gomez or podolski or Mueller.
This post was edited on 6/30/14 at 3:46 pm
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